call the shove with the FD+OESD?

Preflop
I use w34z3l's preflop ranges and from Co vs SB 3bet JTs it´s a call for me.

Flop

definately call with the FD, I think raise is not an option?

Obvious call but why is raising not an option here ?
I think we can raise often in this spot with our middle flush draws.

Turn

the check OTT after conti bet OTF is weak so I wanted to take it down here...

Ii think i will play the same on the Turn.

as he raises we have no more fold equity of course, but we have a FD + OESD - can we call?

Nope, you dont get the right pot odds to make the call. The right move is to just give up and fold.

Hello,

Could you explain the call OTF to me?
You have pot odds of roughly 3:1 while odds of 4:1 (when counted 9 outs).
Which other factors are you considering to make the call justified?
I am still quiet new to the game, so I don't know if I am missing something obvious.

Thanks for answers.

Originally posted by ben002
Hello,

Could you explain the call OTF to me?
You have pot odds of roughly 3:1 while odds of 4:1 (when counted 9 outs).
Which other factors are you considering to make the call justified?
I am still quiet new to the game, so I don't know if I am missing something obvious.

Thanks for answers.

Hi,

He is probably considering what we call 'implied odds'. This is the idea that our opponent will continue to put money into the pot even if our draw completes, in which case the call is profitable.

For example, here, we need 25.6% equity to call (0.5/1.95). Our 9 outs would give us 19.1% (9/47). So our 'share' of the pot is about $0.37 and we'd need it to be about $0.50. However, if we believe that our opponent will call or bet at least $0.13 on the turn if the flush completes, then it's OK to call the bet on the flop.

With implied odds, it's important to be realistic and not use the concept to justify making totally stupid calls, but it can make it OK to call bets that are not profitable when considering pot odds alone.

Originally posted by AgapieGheorghe
Preflop

Flop

definately call with the FD, I think raise is not an option?

Obvious call but why is raising not an option here ?
I think we can raise often in this spot with our middle flush draws

I don't think so, I don't see any reason for raising here. We have the position advantage and we have to fold on re-raise. And if he bluffs, he will very often give up OTT.

Originally posted by MatoStar

Originally posted by AgapieGheorghe
Preflop

Flop

definately call with the FD, I think raise is not an option?

Obvious call but why is raising not an option here ?
I think we can raise often in this spot with our middle flush draws

I don't think so, I don't see any reason for raising here. We have the position advantage and we have to fold on re-raise. And if he bluffs, he will very often give up OTT.

If he c/f the Turn we get the pot then. How many people will 2 barell bluff in a 3 bet pot ?

Originally posted by AgapieGheorghe

Originally posted by MatoStar

Originally posted by AgapieGheorghe
Preflop

Flop

definately call with the FD, I think raise is not an option?

Obvious call but why is raising not an option here ?
I think we can raise often in this spot with our middle flush draws

I don't think so, I don't see any reason for raising here. We have the position advantage and we have to fold on re-raise. And if he bluffs, he will very often give up OTT.

If he c/f the Turn we get the pot then. How many people will 2 barell bluff in a 3 bet pot ?

It depends on the board.. maybe if would be the flop low and on the T come some Q,K,A then some people will second barrel ( btw I posted hand in 3bet spot when I did 2 barrel semibluf). But in this spot after 1/2cbet on Axx flop, if hero called, he usually have Ax, FD, JJ,TT, T9s,98s- with Backdoors and we have also twopair combos and sets. So I think villain against us doesn't have much fold equity OTT, so he should check all his air, draws and maybe checkraise some combo draws.