All in with top pair?

Pre i agree with the 3beting, but it should be higher, nanely above 9bb because you will play OOP.
However, after this, nothing makes much sense to me.

Since I play Full Ring, my opinion of the three bet size and range may not be applicable to shorthanded. But, my 3 bet range is a very narrow QQ+ and sometimes AK. I would not like to 3 bet TT. But, at shorthanded this probably is a fine hand to 3 bet. However, I want to 3 bet to 14 or 15 BB. I am looking to pressure villains towards a SPR All In Decision. Hero has 78 BB and BTN has 72 BB at the Flop of 51 BB. The Stack to Pot Ratio is 1.4. If the SPR is 3 or less, than you are in an All In scenario. Thus, you should fold or be willing to commit all of your chips. Hero made the standard, correct, All In shove per SPR poker theory.

3bet 11bb or 12bb. I really don't understand why donkbet flop.

Originally posted by romanista06
3bet 11bb or 12bb. I really don't understand why donkbet flop.

Donk betting the flop is the best play because you do not want Villain to simply check the flop and get a free card. For instance, if Villain is on AK it is best to make him pay the maximum cost to try to hit his draw. Hero is probably ahead. Stack to Pot Ratio of 1.4 says that you should be willing to commit all your chips or not bet anymore. Don't give villain a chance to outdraw you. Take the big 51 BB pot now.

Originally posted by srichards

Originally posted by romanista06
3bet 11bb or 12bb. I really don't understand why donkbet flop.

Donk betting the flop is the best play because you do not want Villain to simply check the flop and get a free card. For instance, if Villain is on AK it is best to make him pay the maximum cost to try to hit his draw. Hero is probably ahead. Stack to Pot Ratio of 1.4 says that you should be willing to commit all your chips or not bet anymore. Don't give villain a chance to outdraw you. Take the big 51 BB pot now.

It's a 4bet pot with a speculative hand. Considering that villain is a unknown, I put villain in JJ+,AK, against this he gonna win by fold 16 of 40 combos (40%), and gonna win in SD 10% (villain will call only with JJ+), TT gonna win 46%. I don't see this move lucrative in this cenario.

romanista06, Is this an All In scenario because of the 1.4 SPR? Are you saying that you would Check/Fold? Does the 1.4 SPR matter? Is it Ok to just Check/Call the Flop and be willing to fold later streets? According to SPR Poker Theory that I understand, you must commit completely or walk away from this hand.

Originally posted by srichards
romanista06, Is this an All In scenario because of the 1.4 SPR? Are you saying that you would Check/Fold? Does the 1.4 SPR matter? Is it Ok to just Check/Call the Flop and be willing to fold later streets? According to SPR Poker Theory that I understand, you must commit completely or walk away from this hand.

I don't even being in this cenario, TT is a hand to 3bet SBvsBTN, as I said 11BB or 12BB. When we are faccing a 4bet from BB, his range is JJ+,AK, against this, unless BTN call, I preffer to fold.
Could you please explain if this move is lucrative?

You did not answer any of my questions about Stack to Pot Ratio creating a Pot Commitment at the Flop. Since I don't agree with your Villain range, this move is lucrative. In fact, this is the best flop Hero could have if he decides to call the 4 bet.

Originally posted by srichards
You did not answer any of my questions about Stack to Pot Ratio creating a Pot Commitment at the Flop. Since I don't agree with your Villain range, this move is lucrative. In fact, this is the best flop Hero could have if he decides to call the 4 bet.

You don't show me that donkbet is a lucrative move. Wich range villain has in your opinion?
In NL 25 or bigger there is no c/c, but in NL2 Villain will cbet something like 25BB or will check behind, I won't put all stack in this situation without some information.

BTN vs SB is a very dynamic spot with wide ranges, so I would 3bet even 99 and 88, if he opens wide enough. Out of position I usually make it x4. BTW, always 3betting only the top of your range (AK, QQ+) makes you actually very exploitable because you always 3bet on value and villain can just fold.

Originally posted by romanista06

Originally posted by srichards
You did not answer any of my questions about Stack to Pot Ratio creating a Pot Commitment at the Flop. Since I don't agree with your Villain range, this move is lucrative. In fact, this is the best flop Hero could have if he decides to call the 4 bet.

You don't show me that donkbet is a lucrative move. Wich range villain has in your opinion?
In NL 25 or bigger there is no c/c, but in NL2 Villain will cbet something like 25BB or will check behind, I won't put all stack in this situation without some information.

I may be mistaken. But, I suspect that you do not understand Stack to Pot Ratio poker theory. That is why you did not answer my questions. You may not realize that Hero is pot committed. If you are pot committed and have Top Pair over any board card, then Hero should shove according to SPR poker theory. Please review online articles about SPR poker theory. I won’t try to convince you and will respectfully stop commenting on this thread. I don’t think you will listen to me. But, if you read from experts on SPR, you may understand.

3-bet is standart, but it should be to at least 9BB. After the 4-bet calling makes absolutely no sense, you should either 5-bet, or fold, depends on the reads. OTF it's really bad, if you think you have the best hand here, you should check/shove, he cannot skip the c-bet on this board, and if you think you don't have the best hand you should c/f.

Calling 3 or 4-bets with mid pairs like TT or JJ, or QQ, just to flop a low board and then go all in is really bad play and a very common mistake at 2-5NL.

Originally posted by srichards
Since I play Full Ring, my opinion of the three bet size and range may not be applicable to shorthanded. But, my 3 bet range is a very narrow QQ+ and sometimes AK. I would not like to 3 bet TT. But, at shorthanded this probably is a fine hand to 3 bet. However, I want to 3 bet to 14 or 15 BB. I am looking to pressure villains towards a SPR All In Decision. Hero has 78 BB and BTN has 72 BB at the Flop of 51 BB. The Stack to Pot Ratio is 1.4. If the SPR is 3 or less, than you are in an All In scenario. Thus, you should fold or be willing to commit all of your chips. Hero made the standard, correct, All In shove per SPR poker theory.

I think you’re right here in everything except one little detail. Hero is not pushing villain in SPR all in decision, but it’s other way around. Villain has range advantage so, yes, hero should shove here, but only to lose less money in the long run, and not win more money. Thats exactly why he should shove or fold pre.
So I agree with you that heros flop shove is best play on flop, but I also agree with romanista06 that it’s not lucrative play at all because you shouldn’t put yourself in that spot in a first place.

Originally posted by Oly0909

Originally posted by srichards
Since I play Full Ring, my opinion of the three bet size and range may not be applicable to shorthanded. But, my 3 bet range is a very narrow QQ+ and sometimes AK. I would not like to 3 bet TT. But, at shorthanded this probably is a fine hand to 3 bet. However, I want to 3 bet to 14 or 15 BB. I am looking to pressure villains towards a SPR All In Decision. Hero has 78 BB and BTN has 72 BB at the Flop of 51 BB. The Stack to Pot Ratio is 1.4. If the SPR is 3 or less, than you are in an All In scenario. Thus, you should fold or be willing to commit all of your chips. Hero made the standard, correct, All In shove per SPR poker theory.

I think you’re right here in everything except one little detail. Hero is not pushing villain in SPR all in decision, but it’s other way around. Villain has range advantage so, yes, hero should shove here, but only to lose less money in the long run, and not win more money. Thats exactly why he should shove or fold pre.
So I agree with you that heros flop shove is best play on flop, but I also agree with romanista06 that it’s not lucrative play at all because you shouldn’t put yourself in that spot in a first place.

So, finally, I received a answer about why have to pay attention SPR theory in a move not lucrative, just to loose less money.