KK - Turn Play

You need to ½ pot bet the Turn to gain information. Then, bet another 20 BB at the River. Don’t give up on this hand. But, don’t bet big. Be prepared to fold if you face a Turn or River raise.

You can also check the turn and call on a blank river card to keep the pot small in position.
If you bet you can check behind most rivers if he isn't raising the turn.

Cheers,
SDK1987

You can check-back the turn and in river you can call if river blank. My problem the turn bet will call any worst hand than Ax or sets? Maybe KhQh, QhJh not so many hands.

I'd check. You have nothing to protect and you'll be likely called only by Ax or better. Reevaluate OTR you may check, call, fold, or VB depends on the river card and villains action.

Originally posted by SDK1987
You can also check the turn and call on a blank river card to keep the pot small in position.
If you bet you can check behind most rivers if he isn't raising the turn.

Cheers,
SDK1987

On second thought, I prefer this approach. If you bet the Turn, you should check behind most Rivers if he isn't raising the Turn.

I would cbet OTT. You are the agressor and betting with an A on the board suits the story u are telling.

Originally posted by MLima1984
I would cbet OTT. You are the agressor and betting with an A on the board suits the story u are telling.

I agree. I would also bet OTT for the same reason

check call if he bet smal

Originally posted by MLima1984
I would cbet OTT. You are the agressor and betting with an A on the board suits the story u are telling.

Yes, it deffinitely suits and that's exactly the reason why you should check OTT. Any hand that you beat will fold and any hand that beats you will call. By checking you can "tell" a different story OTR and take some value.

I think bet turn, check river.

1. "Ace" hit my 3 bet range vs UTG
2. Check means we have no Ace (why not bet with strong hand IP as preflop agressor?)
3. We can control the pot size (after check very often we will get bet on river, which size we can not control)

That is exactly how i see it, potyka

interesting spot. all the following will be assuming a decent reg villain with a full stack (not a 66.6 BB stack who is likely a recreational).

the "old school" approach is perfectly summarized by semirami's post:

Originally posted by semiramiRNMD
I'd check. You have nothing to protect and you'll be likely called only by Ax or better. Reevaluate OTR you may check, call, fold, or VB depends on the river card and villains action.

and if you were a good player up against another good player, you'd check some of your (strong) Ax+ too, so that you're not capped on the river. when you bet, you use a relatively large sizing with a polarized range of Ax and good bluffs.
the logic is sound, so there's nothing wrong in playing that way.

the "new school" approach is well summarized by potyka's post:

Originally posted by potyka007
I think bet turn, check river.

1. "Ace" hit my 3 bet range vs UTG
2. Check means we have no Ace (why not bet with strong hand IP as preflop agressor?)
3. We can control the pot size (after check very often we will get bet on river, which size we can not control)

we bet at a high frequency (or even 100%) on boards and runouts that hit our range, and usually not with a large sizing, to put maximum pressure on the opponent's borderline holdings (in other words, force him to defend hands that are worse than Ax). that way, middling hands such as KK can still get value, but villain can't just raise everything because the middling hands are protected by the top of our range.
so, if we are betting here, we should bet small with our entire range, like not over 17 BB probably (still sets up a river shove).

nowadays, i prefer to play in the "new school" style for the most part.
however, then comes something interesting. this depends on your specific 3bet range in this spot, but... my default 3bet range here completely whiffs this flop, it's full of the better high cards and Axs.
i don't have 98s, i don't have sets, i hardly even have TP (all of those are in my call range). so, the only value hands i am representing here are overpairs, while most of my bluffs have low equity at this point and villain can have all the nuts. that's real fucking bad (specially if villain can have 98s).
thus, i would probably check this flop with my entire range, including KK.

then you feel like an idiot when a turn ace comes, but that's life. if they bet turn, it's probably not horrible to fold KK with my ranges, since it blocks villain's gutshot bluffs and i have enough aces to defend with.
that said, if you do happen have 98s in your 3bet range (as well as other suited connectors), you probably get a lot more manoeuvring room, as you hit this board way harder in that case.

all that said... let's get to what actually happened. villain has a 66.6 BB stack and i'm not giving him credit at all.
just bet flop bigger and jam the turn (we have about SPR 1), hope he calls with T9, JJ, 99, 88, something like that instead of having a sick spot facing a bet on the river where we'll probably want to fold to any half decent size, but we also don't want to fold because of the retard factor. sometimes he binked the ace or you were already beaten to begin with, but whatever.
the alternative is to just give up and not put in any more money, which feels a bit too weak to me. sometimes the hand checks down and you win (or decide to hero value jam the river?), so it's not terrible.

Preflop ok.
Flop is interesting. I wouldn't be surprised if UTG decided to donkbet this board with a large portion of his range.
When he checks I won't cbet 100% frequency here, so checking back is a reasonable play.

Turn is interesting again. UTG should consider bluffing on the ace, but more often when you check back the flop.
I would check this combo here and bet more often with the K♥:, although I think KK is more of a check anyway. Bet weaker PP (JJ or 99 for instance) and hands with less showdown value like KQo. I would also check AQ or weak suited aces like A5-A2s if you do 3bet them. Bet AK, AJ, some AT hand, 98s, 76s for instance.
The reason I would check KK is because I expect a good player to check/raise the turn sometimes. Hands like 99-88, AK-AQ.
Although you should call relatively wide when facing a check/raise, this exact combo of KK would be a clear fold.