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[PLO5] AAK7 in 4way Pot

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JustMeJaci
Joined: 13.03.2020

Background: I just started with PLO some weeks ago and until now, I did work only on post-flop situation were I am heads up. I had in this hand in my mind that multiway pots should be played carefully with none nuts hands. The main question in this hand is, does the SPR rule count in multiway pots? If yes, then I would play on the flop already for stacks.

PokerStars - $0.05 PL Hi FAST (6 max) - Omaha Hi - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 131.8 BB
SB: 65.2 BB
BB: 100 BB
UTG: 153.4 BB
Hero (MP): 130.4 BB
CO: 282 BB

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Preflop: Standard Play for me AA triple suited with 2 Broadways

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has K♣ A♣ 7♣ A♦

UTG raises to 3.4 BB, Hero raises to 11.6 BB, fold, fold, SB calls 11.2 BB, BB calls 10.6 BB, UTG calls 8.2 BB

Flop: here, the tricky part starts. I did not have any stats or reads on the villiams. Great Flop for me If it would be HU, its an instant C-Bet but we are 4 way and the SPR is below 2, so I would commit myself with a C-Bet. What beats me here is 55, 66, K5, K6 and I am blocking the K. We are 4 way so I was not sure how likely a 55 or 66 is.

Flop: (46.4 BB, 4 players) 5♦ 6♠ K♥
SB checks, BB checks, UTG checks, Hero checks

Turn: I got trips, but nothing changes what beats me on the flop still beats me but now a flush draw is possible. But there was no action on the flop. Now BB bets half pot. My thought is maybe BB was waiting on the flop to C/R me because this is a good flop to C-Bet for me.

I did analyze it with PokerJuice and I got the following numbers:

Range Distribution

Against a loose range PFR 30% excluding OOP 3Betting range of 4%

What beats me
55, 66, K6, K5 would be 4.99% of the time in his range

What I beat
KQ, KJ, KT would be 7.27% of the time in his range

With the OESD and Flush Draw

What beats me
55, 66, K6, K5 would be 5.02% of the time in his range

What I beat:
KJ, KQ, KT, 78, SS would be 47,87% of the time in his range my EV 74%

Against a tighter range PFR 15% excluding oop 3Betting range of 4%

What beats me
55, 66, K6, K5 would be 3.29% of the time in his range

What I beat
KQ, KJ, KT would be 8.91% of the time in his range

If I include the OESD and Flush Draw

Beats me:
55, 66, K6, K5 would be 3.29% of the time in his range my EV 12%

What I beat:
KJ, KQ, KT, 78, SS would be 47,87% of the time in his range my EV 74%

When I see these numbers, it would be an all-in against a tight or loose range but would it be an all-in with a passive player?. My thoughts in this hand is to call on the turn and evaluate the hand on the river.

Turn: (46.4 BB, 4 players) K♠
SB checks, BB bets 22 BB, fold, Hero calls 22 BB, fold

River: I do get pot odds of 2.36:1 (29.75%) so now it would be at least a call

River: (90.4 BB, 2 players) 3♥
BB bets 66.4 BB and is all-in, fold

BB wins 86.8 BB

Summary:
If I knew the SPR counts in multiway pots, I would play for stacks on the flop. With the analyzed range distribution and the SPR on the turn and the possible OESD and Flush Draw I would play here for stacks but what if villiam is passive?. With the pot odds on the river it is an easy call.

I am happy to get your feedback. Be nice ;-) it's my first hand in the PLO HH forum.


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4 replies
Eselsdorfjung
Joined: 05.07.2014

I would bet flop like 1/3. You are blocking the K and some straights with the 7♣: and you are holding a overpair.

Especially in multiway pots you want to deny your opponents equity. Ask yourself which turn cards are nice for you. Do you like continueing the hand when e. g. the 8♥: shows up?

Question you might want to ask yourself:
- "Great Flop for me If it would be HU, its an instant C-Bet" - why is that? What makes you thinking like this?
- "because this is a good flop to C-Bet for me" - what makes you think that this flop is good c-bet for you? When you think it is a good board to c-bet why didn't you put out a bet?

And yeah, SPR goes for MW pots as well. :f_drink:

Apart from that, welcome to PLO. Nice to have you here in the forum. :f_thumbsup: And good effort you put into the hand analysis. :f_thumbsup:


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JustMeJaci
Joined: 13.03.2020

Originally posted by Eselsdorfjung
I would bet flop like 1/3. You are blocking the K and some straights with the 7♣: and you are holding a overpair.

Especially in multiway pots you want to deny your opponents equity. Ask yourself which turn cards are nice for you. Do you like continueing the hand when e. g. the 8♥: shows up?

Thats a really good point to ask what cards I wann/don't wanna see on the turn. Thanks for that

Question you might want to ask yourself:
- "Great Flop for me If it would be HU, its an instant C-Bet" - why is that? What makes you thinking like this?

I think its a good flop to C-Bet because it has 1 High Card and two low cards. The low cards are connected but I have a blocker. And I am holding a King and an overpair.

- "because this is a good flop to C-Bet for me" - what makes you think that this flop is good c-bet for you? When you think it is a good board to c-bet why didn't you put out a bet?


Because I don't have much experience in 4way pots where the SPR is so low, I thought if I c-bet, I would be committed to the pot, and my hand is not strong enough to go broke in a multiway pot. But now I know it better, and that is more worth then the stack I could win

And yeah, SPR goes for MW pots as well. :f_drink:

Thank you for that information :f_drink:

Apart from that, welcome to PLO. Nice to have you here in the forum. :f_thumbsup: And good effort you put into the hand analysis. :f_thumbsup:

Thank you for the friendly welcome and your response :f_thumbsup: It's great to be part of the ps.com PLO community. I am happy that I did not win this hand because then I would not analyze it so deep and learn a lot by that.


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efkay
Joined: 25.03.2005

I feel like it is bet or fold flop, I mean betting small might be a thing here but if you get raised you stackk off anyways (hopefully) and half of the deck on turn 9or lower you wont like at spr around 1. also many cards above 9 you wont like as much because if you bet flop small people are correct to try to catch up to 2pair+.

so how to analyze wether shove flop is protiable or not? well we could do the math but that takes some long time so since there is also a 3way tool for pokerjuice here http://pokerjuice.com/3way/ I give SB & BB your loose assumed $FI30!AA range and double the frequency 1 player stacks off since they would both broke the same:

56+: obv bottom2 pair or better amde hands
K!RR:[7+][7+][7+]: top pair with 3 sideovercards to the flop
234+,47+, any wrap plus the better oesds
43+:5+: any oesd with at least a pair

also for UTG I gave only $FI12!AA since $FI30 would be somewhat too loose for UTG range IMHO. I get the following numbers

UTG stack off frequency is ~35%. we have 44% equity against that mentioned SOR.
SB/BB SOF is 36%. since we combine it with BB we have 72% total. vs blind we have 43% equity. when we come all in 3way it is 22% equity.

Now obv we still miss the part where it gets in 4way but i feel like this is very rare case and if it really happens we have 12% equity, to me that feels like that wont affect the final result that much but if someone disagrees I am waiting for the calculations :P also note that SB is not fullstacked so the 4way scenario becomes even less important

so the results of my approach is shoving flop is absolutely fine: https://ibb.co/3SgQcgD

E: I had a number twist in the potsize flop. fixed it and result is still +EV: https://ibb.co/Kzm2ZDx


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

As one opponent is SPR1, one as SPR 2 and one as SPR 2,5 I would just pot it. Small bet sucks, as it doesn't have FE and most turns suck anyway.


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