I found this SSS while looking for something to short stack higher than my normal limits for next month's Iron Man Mid-Year bonus. It seems like one lost 80/20 AIPF can really kill you, and if you're not relentless stealing blinds when folded to you from the CO, BTN, and SB with nearly any playable hand, that it's only a break even strategy. Thoughts?
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Originally posted by floppedawrap
I found this SSS while looking for something to short stack higher than my normal limits for next month's Iron Man Mid-Year bonus. It seems like one lost 80/20 AIPF can really kill you, and if you're not relentless stealing blinds when folded to you from the CO, BTN, and SB with nearly any playable hand, that it's only a break even strategy. Thoughts?
Hello floppedawrap,
How does one lost 80/20 AIPF really kill you? If you are keeping to bankroll management you will have no problems also losing an 80/20 (after all its 80/20 for a reason - the other person wins 20% of the times while you win 80%) just as you will sometimes also be on the winning side of the 20/80 when you put the money in as underdog.
Although blind stealing is part of the strategy - SSS when done right is far from a break even strategy. There are plenty of winning NL1k-NL5k SSS players on PokerStrategy.com that got to those limits by building their bankroll playing SSS on the lower limits.
Best regards
SoyCD
Originally posted by SoyCD How does one lost 80/20 AIPF really kill you?
Sorry, I didn't mean in the long-term, I'm talking one session.
Originally posted by SoyCD just as you will sometimes also be on the winning side of the 20/80 when you put the money in as underdog.
I play on FTP as a 'regular', so I never win a 20/80, only the fish do as per FTP code ♦ .
How big of a sample should I get before I can assess my own opinion of SSS? Also, I'm assuming if we're using a HUD, and have nits when we're the BTN, we should be expanding our range if folded to us, even when playing SSS?
"Sorry, I didn't mean in the long-term, I'm talking one session."
This phrase really cannot be used for poker in many ways. Poker is a game of probabilities and trying to swing them in your favour as often as possible. One session will not often reflect the actual probability (it could be better or worse).
I would suggest a 15k hand sample size. Of course the more the better... so unless you play some marathon sessions the results of 1 session don't really matter.
Originally posted by floppedawrap
Originally posted by SoyCD How does one lost 80/20 AIPF really kill you?
Sorry, I didn't mean in the long-term, I'm talking one session.
Originally posted by SoyCD just as you will sometimes also be on the winning side of the 20/80 when you put the money in as underdog.
I play on FTP as a 'regular', so I never win a 20/80, only the fish do as per FTP code ♦ .
How big of a sample should I get before I can assess my own opinion of SSS? Also, I'm assuming if we're using a HUD, and have nits when we're the BTN, we should be expanding our range if folded to us, even when playing SSS?
Hello floppedawrap,
Generally one should always think in the long-term and not in a single session. Of course losing a 20/80 hurts- just like it hurts to lose a full Stack playing with 100 BB to a 20/80. I mean there are also BSS sessions where you lose KK vs AA 3 times and once AA vs KK and end up struggling to break-even. Obviously this is just a bad session though.
Having played some SSS myself I have had session where I went 25 stacks up and then 25 stacks down in a single session - so believe me when I say that a single 20/80 is just standard variance.
The Basic SSS does not have a lot of range extension on the CU/BU since its made for beginners and the lowstakes. As you move up though you would be giving away money if you didn't add steals and re-steals into your repertoire.
Advanced SSS lives from stealing, re-stealing and abusing the little stack to punish players that are too loose while stealing from those that are too tight. There are several articles and videos on the subject such as "Short Stack Strategy: How do the Elephant stats help you?" and articles from the Gold section such as;
# Short Stack Strategy: Advanced Pre-flop Play
# Shortstack-Strategy: Sklansky-Chubukov numbers and preflop pushes
# Shortstack-Strategy: Adjusting the reraise-ranges
# Short Stack Strategy: Steals and Resteals
# Short Stack Strategy: The Isolation Raise
# Short Stack Strategy: How to React to Flop Raises and Donk Bets
These are augmented by videos such as Xarry's video on pre-flop Equity; http://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/2319 which you can see the first 4 minutes of
Best regards
SoyCD
SoyCD, thanks for the info in this and the other post. I don't have access to the other articles, but being a former SNG player, I'm sure I am familiar with the concepts. I used my HUD to adjust to the tables. The past two nights, without one suckout, actually, I've run 3.46ptBB/100 over 1,095 hands, so I'm going to keep trying it. I just needed a high volume strategy for awhile, and this seems to work fairly well.
I believe a problem many beginners have with SSS is that they try to play "real poker" cause they are playing only on 2-3 tables and find it hard to fold sometimes, when they should. At least for me, I started winning with SSS only after I upped the number of tables to minimum of 9. Thus, I think the concept of multitabling should be touched in much more beginner articles. Even a complete beginner can play 4 tables if he is holding a printed chart, and add a table every week.