Ramble's Ramblings

Originally posted by Tomaloc
good effort. a few thoughts:

- if you're playing all those hands as pure calls you're calling WAY too wide preflop, especially for microstakes rake

Thanks Tomaloc!!

I am definitely not playing all these as pure calls (and this isn't my exact range anyways - just something to work with and expose me to different ideas.)

hand 1: raising weaker TP is a thing you can do in theory in some frequency, but you have to be careful with how you play it out. your reasoning isn't quite right, why are you trying to "steal the pot" by raising top pair? do you think he's folding any better top pairs to your raise? even worse, what if he calls with some KQcc type hand and bluffs the river? (those hands are protected by his strong top pairs, as you presumably correctly assumed)
the easy/standard way to play is to just call flop (and most turns against most sizings) with those hands.

You're absolutely right... If I think about how I'd play the hand if roles were reversed, my thinking with the hands doesn't make sense.

hand 3: that is a flop where BTN should have a higher proportion of nuts and hitting a piece of the board, so UTG should be very careful (i.e. check a lot more than the pool does) and you can add a lot more raises vs cbets, like mixing some pair+gutshots which blocks opponent's sets, denies overcard equity and puts overpairs in a tough spot.

That makes sense - I'll try to incorporate that as I go further in my study.

hand 2: i'm too lazy

Hopefully not because it's too bad...
I really appreciate the time you spent commenting on the other ones!

that's not all there is to say, but just some food for thought. generally speaking, you're going in a good direction

Thanks for the confidence boost. I know I have a long way to go, but nice to hear I'm not completely wasting my time.

Just a quick update - studying is going well and I'm seeing a very nice heater at the tables as a result. Still a ways to go to wipe out the downswing, but I think I'm well on my way.

Hang in there everyone!

Yup it's more about learning and improving than it is about the results... After some time you know from experience how big your edge is at the table vs other players. I think this is the key to confidence, this inner knowing from experience.

Played a bit this morning, but think I'm going to take the rest of the day off from poker to keep things fresh.

I'll be posting a bankroll challenge update this weekend. I'm not sure what that is going to look like with my downswing, recent upswing and clearing some bonuses... I've purposefully been trying to ignore that side of things and just focus on my post-flop game. Still negative balance for sure, but we'll see.

I got a quick work-out in this morning too, so I feel good about that... I really need to make it part of my daily routine, but it's soooo hard. I have so little energy for that kind of stuff... which I guess is the problem... haha...

Originally posted by Ramble

that's not all there is to say, but just some food for thought. generally speaking, you're going in a good direction

Thanks for the confidence boost. I know I have a long way to go, but nice to hear I'm not completely wasting my time.

I used to like your blog a lot, but then you go and do this ( the hand ranges analysis) and I get the exactly opposite from a confidence boost. Realising how far behind am I :f_biggrin: :f_biggrin:

just kidding! very cool stuff and thought provoking

Originally posted by nutural
I used to like your blog a lot, but then you go and do this ( the hand ranges analysis) and I get the exactly opposite from a confidence boost. Realising how far behind am I :f_biggrin: :f_biggrin:

just kidding! very cool stuff and thought provoking

Hahaha -

Thanks for letting me know you like it (and the blog)... I'll be posting some different board textures soon.

Hey Ramble this is a really great way to study. I am sure if you keep up at it you will make steady improvements to your game.
Tomaloc gave some great feedback on the hand examples so no need to comment further.

One thing that I would recommend for training your ranges would be to practice building your ranges against different cbet sizes. For example the way you play your ranges will vary depending on whether villain C-Bets 1/3 or 3/4. This is due to the different pot odds that are being offered meaning that your minimal defence frequency changes. A broad intuitive heuristic is the larger the cbet size the more of your range you can give up.

Hope this tip helps and keep up with the study!

Originally posted by SiKWiThIt
Hey Ramble this is a really great way to study. I am sure if you keep up at it you will make steady improvements to your game.
Tomaloc gave some great feedback on the hand examples so no need to comment further.

One thing that I would recommend for training your ranges would be to practice building your ranges against different cbet sizes. For example the way you play your ranges will vary depending on whether villain C-Bets 1/3 or 3/4. This is due to the different pot odds that are being offered meaning that your minimal defence frequency changes. A broad intuitive heuristic is the larger the cbet size the more of your range you can give up.

Hope this tip helps and keep up with the study!

Thanks... a whole other dimension I hadn't even considered to add... lol

It makes sense to include this in my study now though, so it is very much appreciated! I'll probably go back through my review document and redo the examples I've captured with different bet-sizing to see the impact on the ranges... It'll be good to update them with Tomolac's input as well, while it is still fresh in my mind.

Bankroll Challenge Update - Week 7

All info below is specific to the Bankroll Challenge and are the running totals since the start (August 12, 2021)
Stakes: NL5 and NL10
Hands Played: 19,777
Starting Bankroll: $100.00
Current Bankroll: $99.64 (includes bonuses)
Bankroll Goal: $500.00
Goal Completion: -.09%

So, I lost some ground on the challenge overall and am actually running negative in terms of bankroll... but... But... But... I feel like it was a good thing to happen because it forced me to re-examine my game and I've learned a lot the past couple of weeks. Winning is great, but losing forces you into a corner and nobody puts baby in the corner! (not sure how many people will get that reference)

So here is the graph to date...
I've talked enough about the downswing that started around 10,000 hand mark in previous posts.
The upswing at around 18,000 hands was after I took a small break and thought a lot more about my post-flop play. I was fortunate and went on a little heater so it was good motivation. Hopefully the trend continues in an upward direction.

I'll be posting some more post-flop range construction (as pre-flop caller) thoughts in the next couple of days... Hopefully you guys will give me some more good feedback on it so I can continue to improve.

Thanks for reading and good luck!

Played a small session last night with some good results. This was my favorite hand of the evening:

PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

CO: $14.23 (142.3 bb) VPIP:24 / PFR:20
BTN: $7.38 (73.8 bb) VPIP:64 / PFR:23
SB: $11.78 (117.8 bb)
BB: $10.37 (103.7 bb)
Hero (UTG): $10.62 (106.2 bb)
MP: $11.26 (112.6 bb)

SB posts $0.05, BB posts $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has 9♣: 9♦:
Hero raises to $0.25, fold, CO calls $0.25, BTN raises to $0.40, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.15, CO calls $0.15

Flop: ($1.35, 3 players) 4♣: 8♣: 4♠:
Hero checks, CO checks, BTN bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50

Turn: ($2.85, 3 players) A♠:
Hero checks, CO checks, BTN checks

River: ($2.85, 3 players) 9♥:
Hero bets $1.85, CO raises to $13.33 and is all-in, fold, Hero calls $7.87 and is all-in

Results: $22.29 pot ($1.00 rake)
Final Board: 4♣: 8♣: 4♠: A♠: 9♥:

CO shows 8♥: 8♦:: (Full House, Eights full of Fours)
(Pre 18%, Flop 91%, Turn 95%)

Hero shows 9♣: 9♦:: (Full House, Nines full of Fours)
(Pre 82%, Flop 9%, Turn 5%)

Hero wins $21.29

I actually apologized when I saw villain's hand... but I didn't feel too bad.

with loosing 0.09% per 20k hands, you will roughly survive with the rest of the bankroll for... the rest of your life! Add some free giveaways from time to time - you should even get out ahead!
Gratz to giving the badbeat. Maybe villain should have bet the turn - but who knows.

Originally posted by SvenBe
with loosing 0.09% per 20k hands, you will roughly survive with the rest of the bankroll for... the rest of your life! Add some free giveaways from time to time - you should even get out ahead!
Gratz to giving the badbeat. Maybe villain should have bet the turn - but who knows.

LOL - If that's the case, this could be the cheapest hobby I've ever had.

Range Constructions on the Flop - Take 2

I've gone back and revisited my range construction exercise based on some of the feedback above. As I mentioned before, sometimes I go around in circles making arguments against myself about why to include certain hands in certain parts of my range... I can convince myself of just about anything... so it would be great to get some additional feedback, especially where I list some assumptions/questions.

DISCLAIMER: These aren't my exact pre-flop calling ranges but approximations (also some of these hands could also be 3-bets) - the point is to try and understand why we include certain hands and not others in our post-flop choices...

Hand 1
PokerStars - $0.10 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by Holdem Manager 3

Hero (BTN): $12.71 (127.1 bb)
SB: $12.62 (126.2 bb)
BB: $11.91 (119.1 bb)
UTG: $10.59 (105.9 bb)
MP: $12.27 (122.7 bb)
CO: $10.17 (101.7 bb)

SB posts $0.05, BB posts $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has <<Range in Spoiler>>
UTG raises to $0.20, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.20, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.65, 3 players) A♣: J♦: 5♥:

I think posting all 3 hands at once, like I did the other day, was a bit too big for one post, so I'll post hand 2 soon and then hand 3 after that.

Thanks

Hey Ramble!

I like these "puzzles" you posted, let's see the last one.

1,
The range you constructed for preflop call is 176 combos. You were right, you need to protect 75% of your range against 1/3 cbet. You put 46 combos (44-22, A4s-A2s, T9s, 98s, 87s, 54s) into your fold vs cbet range, which is 26,14% of our range. We slightly overfolding, but all in all you did a good job. However you forgot one important thing, which is card removal! If you put this flopinto Equilab and tick card removal option (there must be an option for this in other softwares), than you will see that we left with 149 combos in our preflop call range and 42 combos in our fold vs cbet range. This means that we only protect 107 combos, which is only 71,81% of our range!

2,
I constructed an average EP RFI range to make our life easier: 55+, A2s+, KJs+, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, ATo+, KQo. You were right, this flop hit UTG range well, so he can cbet with his entire range OTF.

You put A♦:T♦: , A♦:9♦: , A♦:8♦: and the same 3 combos from to your bluff raise range, so let's see how they do against out opponent's flop cbet (in this case same as EP RFI) range!

We have the worst EV with A♥:8♥: :

Board: J♦5♥A♣
       Equity     Win     Tie
SB     61.97%  58.83%   3.13% { Ah8h }
BB     38.03%  34.90%   3.13% { 55+, A2s+, KJs+, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, ATo+, KQo }

And the best with A♦:T♦: :

Board: J♦5♥A♣
       Equity     Win     Tie
SB     67.24%  63.49%   3.75% { AdTd }
BB     32.76%  29.01%   3.75% { 55+, A2s+, KJs+, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, ATo+, KQo }

Do we really want to bluff raise with 62-68% equity?

3,
For me it is also interesting that you call with all of your 3rd pairs (TT-66), but you fold from your top pairs. (A4s-A2s). Against the EP range above A2s combos have 60% equity, but your best 3rd pair TT has only 34%. Seeing point 1, and 2, I would call with all my top pairs.

4,
Why you want to raise the same ammount of combos for value and for bluff? If we are playing against an average micro regular (against a fish's flop cbet I don't really want to bluff raise) IMO he will fold a lot for raises, even when flop hit a good chunk of his range like in this example. When he will fold a lot, you want to exploit him with increasing your bluff raise combos. To discuss this more, let me give you a "puzzle".

Hero (BTN): $12.71 (127.1 bb)
SB: $12.62 (126.2 bb)
BB: $11.91 (119.1 bb)
UTG: $10.59 (105.9 bb)
MP: $12.27 (122.7 bb)
CO: $10.17 (101.7 bb)

SB posts $0.05, BB posts $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has <<Range in Spoiler>>
UTG raises to $0.20, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.20, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.65, 3 players) A♣: J♦: 5♥:
UTG bets $0.22, Hero raises to $0.75

If EP cbets his entire range (let's say the range I gave above), what do you think, what will he fold and what will he continue with? (doesn't matter he continues with 3bet or just with call. Please split his range into 2 parts: fold and continue).

5,
At last, here's how I would construct my ranges in the situation you gave.

Flop: A♣:J♦:5♥:

Preflop call range (exact same you gave): JJ-22,AQs-A2s,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s,54s,AQo,KQo 149 combos

We want to protect 149*0,75=112 combos

Value raise range (still the same): JhJs, JhJc, JsJc, 5d5s, 5d5c, 5s5c, AhJh, AsJs, Ad5d, As5s 10 combos

Bluff raise range: KdQd, KhQh, KcQc, KdTd, KhTh, KcTc, QdTd, QhTh, QcTc, Td9d, Th9h, Tc9c, 9d8d, 9h8h, 9c8c, 8d7d, 8h7h, 8c7c, 7d6d, 7h6h, 7c6c 21 combos

If we raise 31 combos, we left with 118, but we need only 81 to our calling range. (here is the 118 combo we have to choose from: TT-66, 44-22, AdQd, AhQh, AsQs, KsQs, KhJh, KsJs, KcJc, QhJh, QsJs, QcJc, AdTd, AhTh, AsTs, KsTs, QsTs, JhTh, JsTs, JcTc, Ad9d, Ah9h, As9s, Ts9s, Ad8d, Ah8h, As8s, 9s8s, Ad7d, Ah7h, As7s, 8s7s, Ad6d, Ah6h, As6s, 7s6s, 6d5d, 6s5s, 6c5c, Ad4d, Ah4h, As4s, 5d4d, 5s4s, 5c4c, Ad3d, Ah3h, As3s, Ad2d, Ah2h, As2s, KQo, AdQh, AdQs, AdQc, AhQd, AhQs, AhQc, AsQd, AsQh, AsQc)

Call range: 88,54s,AdQd,AhQh,AsQs,KsQs,KhJh,KsJs,KcJc,QhJh,QsJs,QcJc,AdTd,AhTh,AsTs,KsTs,QsTs,JhTh,JsTs,JcTc,Ad9d,Ah9h,As9s,Ad8d,Ah8h,As8s,Ad7d,Ah7h,As7s,Ad6d,Ah6h,As6s,Ad4d,Ah4h,As4s,Ad3d,Ah3h,As3s,Ad2d,Ah2h,As2s,KQo,AdQh,AdQs,AdQc,AhQd,AhQs,AhQc,AsQd,AsQh,AsQc 81 combos

54 and 65 of has more equity than 77-88, but they are more vulnerable. It is your choice which you will choose to call range. I put from both into my call range.

You can ask, why I want to raise with GS+BDFD combos (Q♥: T♥: for example), when they have enough equity to call. Let's talk about tat after you did "the puzzle" from point 4, but you can guess. I hope you will find this useful

Nice discussion!

May I ask, you say you need to continue with 75% of your range vs 1/3 pot cbet ... Why is this?

Originally posted by Stackoffski
Nice discussion!

May I ask, you say you need to continue with 75% of your range vs 1/3 pot cbet ... Why is this?

It's the MDF (Minimum Defense Frequency) to not be exploitable by our opponents. It's calculated by:

...so the bigger the opponent's bet, the less you need to defend.

@LahtiPelican - Thanks for the detailed post. I'm working on a response, but need to play some Mario Party with my daughter first! :f_thumbsup::f_biggrin::f_thumbsup:

Originally posted by LahtiPelican
Hey Ramble!

I like these "puzzles" you posted, let's see the last one.

1,
The range you constructed for preflop call is 176 combos. You were right, you need to protect 75% of your range against 1/3 cbet. You put 46 combos (44-22, A4s-A2s, T9s, 98s, 87s, 54s) into your fold vs cbet range, which is 26,14% of our range. We slightly overfolding, but all in all you did a good job. However you forgot one important thing, which is card removal! If you put this flopinto Equilab and tick card removal option (there must be an option for this in other softwares), than you will see that we left with 149 combos in our preflop call range and 42 combos in our fold vs cbet range. This means that we only protect 107 combos, which is only 71,81% of our range!

You're right. I did look at card removal and with 149 combos determined that I needed to continue with 112 hands. I wasn't going for exact numbers since there is no way I'd be able to achieve this in game, but since I'm not in-game I might as well try and be as accurate as I can. Will do going forward.

2, I constructed an average EP RFI range to make our life easier: 55+, A2s+, KJs+, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, ATo+, KQo. You were right, this flop hit UTG range well, so he can cbet with his entire range OTF.

You put A♦:T♦: , A♦:9♦: , A♦:8♦: and the same 3 combos from to your bluff raise range, so let's see how they do against out opponent's flop cbet (in this case same as EP RFI) range!

We have the worst EV with A♥:8♥: :

Board: J♦5♥A♣
Equity Win Tie
SB 61.97% 58.83% 3.13% { Ah8h }
BB 38.03% 34.90% 3.13% { 55+, A2s+, KJs+, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, ATo+, KQo }

And the best with A♦:T♦: :

Board: J♦5♥A♣
Equity Win Tie
SB 67.24% 63.49% 3.75% { AdTd }
BB 32.76% 29.01% 3.75% { 55+, A2s+, KJs+, QJs, JTs, T9s, 98s, ATo+, KQo }

Do we really want to bluff raise with 62-68% equity?

I agree... I was looking for hands to include in my semi-bluff range (see point 4 below) and included these, but didn't really like it in my gut... (one of the spots where I was levelling myself with some dumb logic)... I think Tomaloc was trying to point out the same thing. Thanks for pushing me off the fence on to the right side.

3, For me it is also interesting that you call with all of your 3rd pairs (TT-66), but you fold from your top pairs. (A4s-A2s). Against the EP range above A2s combos have 60% equity, but your best 3rd pair TT has only 34%. Seeing point 1, and 2, I would call with all my top pairs.

This is interesting... I need to go back and tweak one of my generalizations (my quick in-hand sorting rules) that excluded these hands. I'm a little nervous now that this didn't occur to me on my own... I mean, in most cases top pair with a weak kicker is going to be preferable to 3rd pair right... so what was I thinking?

4, Why you want to raise the same ammount of combos for value and for bluff? If we are playing against an average micro regular (against a fish's flop cbet I don't really want to bluff raise) IMO he will fold a lot for raises, even when flop hit a good chunk of his range like in this example. When he will fold a lot, you want to exploit him with increasing your bluff raise combos. To discuss this more, let me give you a "puzzle".

Hero (BTN): $12.71 (127.1 bb)
SB: $12.62 (126.2 bb)
BB: $11.91 (119.1 bb)
UTG: $10.59 (105.9 bb)
MP: $12.27 (122.7 bb)
CO: $10.17 (101.7 bb)

SB posts $0.05, BB posts $0.10

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.15) Hero has <<Range in Spoiler>>
UTG raises to $0.20, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.20, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.65, 3 players) A♣: J♦: 5♥:
UTG bets $0.22, Hero raises to $0.75

If EP cbets his entire range (let's say the range I gave above), what do you think, what will he fold and what will he continue with? (doesn't matter he continues with 3bet or just with call. Please split his range into 2 parts: fold and continue).

Fold: TT-66,T9s,98s (38 combos)
Continue: JJ+,55,A2s+,KJs+,QJs,JTs,ATo+,KQo (114 combos)
If I did my quick math right, villain should call my flop raise with hands that have at least 20% equity... which I think gives the breakdown above.

With respect to number of hands to bluff with - this is an area I struggle with... I know not to bluff versus calling stations and to bluff more versus fit-or-fold players... I think I understand the concept of balancing your bluff range based on the pot odds given, but for an exercise like this - what would be a good rule of thumb to go with? I was going with a 1:1 value-to-bluff construction for the purpose of this exercise... do you have any suggestions in this area?

5, At last, here's how I would construct my ranges in the situation you gave.

Flop: A♣:J♦:5♥:

Preflop call range (exact same you gave): JJ-22,AQs-A2s,KTs+,QTs+,JTs,T9s,98s,87s,76s,65s,54s,AQo,KQo 149 combos

We want to protect 149*0,75=112 combos

Value raise range (still the same): JhJs, JhJc, JsJc, 5d5s, 5d5c, 5s5c, AhJh, AsJs, Ad5d, As5s 10 combos

Bluff raise range: KdQd, KhQh, KcQc, KdTd, KhTh, KcTc, QdTd, QhTh, QcTc, Td9d, Th9h, Tc9c, 9d8d, 9h8h, 9c8c, 8d7d, 8h7h, 8c7c, 7d6d, 7h6h, 7c6c 21 combos

If we raise 31 combos, we left with 118, but we need only 81 to our calling range. (here is the 118 combo we have to choose from: TT-66, 44-22, AdQd, AhQh, AsQs, KsQs, KhJh, KsJs, KcJc, QhJh, QsJs, QcJc, AdTd, AhTh, AsTs, KsTs, QsTs, JhTh, JsTs, JcTc, Ad9d, Ah9h, As9s, Ts9s, Ad8d, Ah8h, As8s, 9s8s, Ad7d, Ah7h, As7s, 8s7s, Ad6d, Ah6h, As6s, 7s6s, 6d5d, 6s5s, 6c5c, Ad4d, Ah4h, As4s, 5d4d, 5s4s, 5c4c, Ad3d, Ah3h, As3s, Ad2d, Ah2h, As2s, KQo, AdQh, AdQs, AdQc, AhQd, AhQs, AhQc, AsQd, AsQh, AsQc)

Call range: 88,54s,AdQd,AhQh,AsQs,KsQs,KhJh,KsJs,KcJc,QhJh,QsJs,QcJc,AdTd,AhTh,AsTs,KsTs,QsTs,JhTh,JsTs,JcTc,Ad9d,Ah9h,As9s,Ad8d,Ah8h,As8s,Ad7d,Ah7h,As7s,Ad6d,Ah6h,As6s,Ad4d,Ah4h,As4s,Ad3d,Ah3h,As3s,Ad2d,Ah2h,As2s,KQo,AdQh,AdQs,AdQc,AhQd,AhQs,AhQc,AsQd,AsQh,AsQc 81 combos

54 and 65 of has more equity than 77-88, but they are more vulnerable. It is your choice which you will choose to call range. I put from both into my call range.

You can ask, why I want to raise with GS+BDFD combos (Q♥: T♥: for example), when they have enough equity to call. Let's talk about tat after you did "the puzzle" from point 4, but you can guess. I hope you will find this useful
hmmm... your ranges look great and intuitively make more sense to me.
I agree with raising your GS+BDFD combos.
How did you decide to bluff raise 2x your value raise combos?

Thanks very much for taking the time to evaluate and discuss this with me! ♠_drink:

Took a day off and am now focusing on getting some volume in.

I play a few hundred hands really well and then a few hands poorly and the end result is I'm breaking even... wash/rinse/repeat... sometimes I feel like I'm just a cog in the rake-generation machine.

I'm confident that I can be a winning player, I just need to learn to stop making those costly errors. I'm getting better at recognizing those spots all the time... so it's just a matter of getting the experience in and reinforcing good decision making.

Yup the volume is not THAT important I think, it is only if you want good proof that you are winning or good results money-wise... I think it is totally ok to just play 50-100 hands, just quit and relax... You still learn a lot by the experience...

Originally posted by taavi1337
Yup the volume is not THAT important I think, it is only if you want good proof that you are winning or good results money-wise... I think it is totally ok to just play 50-100 hands, just quit and relax... You still learn a lot by the experience...

Thanks man! Sometimes I forget that I am playing this game as a fun hobby and because I enjoy learning the theory. Instead I let my mind shift to results and that takes the fun out of it when I don't get them right away. Thanks for the reminder... I'm taking your advice.