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Tragedy with KK

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VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

Shove and Cash Out?

That isn't how I would want to play it, and if I shoved at the wrong time, it would be even worse than it was
Opponent is new to me first ever hand at this table

PokerStars, Hold'em No Limit - $0.10/$0.25 - 5 players

UTG: $50.03 (200 bb)
CO: $26.51 (106 bb)
BU: $32.58 (130 bb)
SB: $25.00 (100 bb)
BB (Hero): $25.00 (100 bb)

Pre-Flop: ($0.35) Hero is BB with K♦:K♠:
2 players fold, BTN raises to $0.75, 1 fold, Hero 3-bets to $2.35, BTN calls $1.60 <<< this is the mistake here — had I noticed his short stack, I would have put him all in. Unlikely opponent folds, but I can cash out for 66% of the pot.

Flop: ($4.80) K♥:T♣:A♦: (2 players)
Hero bets $1.83, BTN calls $1.83 <<< OK — if I shove here, I'm ahead, and can cash out for 94%
Board: K♥T♣A♦
       Equity     Win     Tie
BU      5.71%   4.95%   0.76% { Ah4h }
BB     94.29%  93.54%   0.76% { KdKs }

Turn: ($8.46) A♠: (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $2.42, Hero calls $2.42

River: ($13.30) T♦: (2 players)
Hero bets $5.08, BTN calls $5.08

Total pot: $23.46 (Rake: $1.06)

Showdown:
BB (Hero) shows K♦:K♠: (a full house, Kings full of Aces)
BU shows 4♥:A♥: (a full house, Aces full of Tens)
BU wins $22.40

So pretty standard, I was only wondering if I would ever have cashed out with 95% equity OTF.
I probably wouldn't have at 66%


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7 replies
Dr1fter808
Joined: 11.10.2017

I would play it the same. If I shoved on flop then I wouldn't even think about cashing out until turn.


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EmiyaKiritsugu
Joined: 13.08.2013

this is the mistake here — had I noticed his short stack, I would have put him all in. Unlikely opponent folds, but I can cash out for 66% of the pot.

WTF? Why do you want to 4bet shove when you are 100bb deep?

<<< OK — if I shove here, I'm ahead, and can cash out for 94%

No its not, because your 94% equity are useless if he folds. And he would certainly find fold button there.

Turn: ($8.46) A♠: (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $2.42, Hero calls $2.42

And then where the real problem is. You have full house against potential trips in 4bet pot where due to stack to pot ratio its a lot harder to fold something like trips of aces. Thats where you should consider going all in, not on flop.

River: ($13.30) T♦: (2 players)
Hero bets $5.08, BTN calls $5.08

So let me ask you - what was your reasoning behind this donkbet?
You wanted to prevent yourself to be bluffed? Then why do you bet almost 40% of pot? Why not bet like 10%, a lot of people will not have balls to raise you with bluff.

Or maybe you were valuebetting? Then what do you expect to call you on river?


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Dr1fter808
Joined: 11.10.2017

Originally posted by EmiyaKiritsugu

this is the mistake here — had I noticed his short stack, I would have put him all in. Unlikely opponent folds, but I can cash out for 66% of the pot.

WTF? Why do you want to 4bet shove when you are 100bb deep?

<<< OK — if I shove here, I'm ahead, and can cash out for 94%

No its not, because your 94% equity are useless if he folds. And he would certainly find fold button there.

Turn: ($8.46) A♠: (2 players)
Hero checks, BTN bets $2.42, Hero calls $2.42

And then where the real problem is. You have full house against potential trips in 4bet pot where due to stack to pot ratio its a lot harder to fold something like trips of aces. Thats where you should consider going all in, not on flop.

River: ($13.30) T♦: (2 players)
Hero bets $5.08, BTN calls $5.08

So let me ask you - what was your reasoning behind this donkbet?
You wanted to prevent yourself to be bluffed? Then why do you bet almost 40% of pot? Why not bet like 10%, a lot of people will not have balls to raise you with bluff.

Or maybe you were valuebetting? Then what do you expect to call you on river?

Well, I thought about check/call on river but I think block bet is slightly better, imo. However, I do agree that block bet should not be that large.


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Krris
Joined: 20.04.2014

Size up on the Flop, Cbet Turn. Easy check/fold river
Do not complicate it


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Moderator
SDK1987
Joined: 12.11.2008

I don't see a short stack in this hand. Everyone is playing 100+bb deep.
I would Cbet flop and turn most of the time with the virtual nuts.
The river is a really bad card. Any ace will win and I don't think you can get value or a better hand to fold/
I would most likely check/fold on a reasonable bet.

Cheers,
SDK1987


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Dr1fter808
Joined: 11.10.2017

I will say this, it's a horrendously bad run out for the KK. Turned from elation to desperation in two flips of cards. It reminds of me of the "Harlan's bad beat" from Molly's Game.


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ColorFlusher
Joined: 19.01.2008

I would like to suggest not using cash out ever because it has a 1% fee. Paying 1% extra rake voluntarily in a big pot is not a good business. It reduces your winrate so much that if all the winning players would use cash out majority of them wouldn't be winning anymore. If you are scared to lose the pot then it is either time to improve your mental game or move down in stakes.


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