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pre-flop starting hand comparison

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superkurac
Joined: 17.06.2020

Hi all,

so according to the pokerprotools-ranking hand A (8654ds) is top 18.6% and hand B (KJ54ds) is top 50.3%.

I'm not sure what the metrics of their ranking system are, but they probably include playability, equity realizability, etc.

I was just very surprised as to how big the discrepancy between the two hands in the ranking is, especially since hand B has 53.2% equity vs. hand A.

Is it because hand B is dominated more often on the boards it wants to get involved with by other hands that want to get involved with them?

Any thoughts?

Thank you


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4 replies
JoePlotter
Joined: 10.11.2012

That's precisely the reason. In omaha you prefer starting hands that have multicomponent strenght or very high one component strenght like KK flopping a set. Connectivity provides hands with the very important redraws. 8654ds while been not the best of the hads due to gap in the top will still flop strong example A32 straight+redraws while KJ54ds is bare straight and would be 43% underdog against 8654ds. KJ54ds cannot flop wraps while 8654ds has 9 different ways to flop a wrap. 7 wraps with two flop cards and 2 wraps with 3 flop cards.

[EDIT: put in pics]

Rundown gap at the top end

I put here also rundown with gap at the bottom end. Compare the nut outs.

Rundown gap at the bottom end

But back analyzing the KJ54ds. Unless you flop quads or straight flush or straight with As on the two tone flop, someone will smoke you -and often. There's is very little playability deep stacked and multiway pots. I usually steal from the button with this hand if just small chance to get a 3-way pot. Heads-up ofc open from position since it's doublesuited.

I dont like the 18.6% ranking for the 8654ds. Gap at the top and lacking high card strenght it's a trouble. 862 and 863 are the only flops where you have top2 without straight being present. And with only non-nut open ender to redraw. This hand needs position -badly. Or a skilled user to wield it. :f_smile:


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superkurac
Joined: 17.06.2020

thanks for the explanation and input /\


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Coach
Kyyberi
Joined: 09.07.2010

In short, PPT rankings were made by just putting hands all-in versus each other. At 2006 they changed the system, explained here: http://pokercoder.blogspot.com/2006/07/towards-meaningful-ordering-of-hands.html

That's why they have different rankings for 10max, 6max, 3 handed and HU. It doesn't really take into account playability. That's why some high card, high pair hands are a bit overvalued and smaller rundowns undervalued.

Funny thing is that 8654ds is top18% in full ring (10 players). At 6max it's top27% and HU top64% in PPT rankings.


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superkurac
Joined: 17.06.2020

thank you kyyberi


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