[Closed] I thought AK was a flip

Originally posted by Grailer

Originally posted by ihufa
Every post you make is so absurdly wrong.

http://www.pokertableratings.com/stars-player-search/ihufa

a picture tells 1000 words ..nuff said

Anyways enough trash talking . Im going to answer the mans question.

AK isnt flip AK is drawing hand you have a 43% chance to win against under pair .

To play it correctly you raise and give yourself odds to call an all in

if you have $50 on table , someone raises $8 with QQ.. actual pot with implied odds would be $100 , so you must raise since the bet is 8% of the possible pot

So say you raise to $24 and they moved all in , pot would be $74 and $26 to call ... therefore you are getting good odds to call.

If they just called and you missed the flop the pot is $48 and you have $26 left .. if they move all in on flop pot is $74 and you have 26% chance to suck out an A or K on turn river , call because pot will be $100 and it cost you $26 ( 26% bingo ) to draw out.

If you are big stack well you can see that its easier to fold AK pre flop or you need to raise up alot more to make it profitable as a drawing hand

Anyways hopefully this helps and congratulations you have just learnt how to trap yourself with AK by manipulating the pot to turn a -EV hand into a +EV call .

Its great against short stack players .. Here is example hand

Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

Play hand

$0.01/$0.02 No-Limit Hold'em (8 handed)

Known players:
[tg]MP3$1.28:///////;CO (Hero)$2.08:///////;BU$1.84:///////;SB$2.80:///////;BB$5.46:///////;UTG2$0.50:///////;MP1$2.00:///////;MP2$0.69:///////;[/tg]

Preflop: Hero is CO with A:c, K:d.
UTG2 raises to $0.08, 3 folds, Hero raises to $0.24, 3 folds, UTG2 raises to $0.50, Hero calls $0.26.

Flop: ($1.03) A:h, 5:h, 3:d (2 players)

Turn: ($1.03) 5:s (2 players)

River: ($1.03) 8:d (2 players)

Final Pot: $1.03.
Results follow:

Hero shows two pairs, aces and fives(A:c K:d).
UTG2 shows two pairs, queens and fives(Q:c Q:h).

Hero wins with two pairs, aces and fives(A:c K:d).

Never call the bet with AK when out of position. I would go allin 100bb deep with AK all day long. I'm pretty sure you can't go broke with AK preflop allin before NL50 or so. There are so many people in the lower limits ready to get the stacks in the middle with AQ/AJ/KQ or even lower than that as long as those 2 cards are suited.

Originally posted by Grailer
Here is how you win with AK vs QQ or JJ 51% of time

First of all you need to raise in a position where you would have a hand like AK AA KK etc .. if you actually have AK the chance of hitting the A or K is only 39% which sucks and is -EV vs QQ or JJ .

However if you dont have AK then the odds of hitting AK on flop is 51% which is slightly +EV also you might hit a set then u really hope they have AK which is unlikely because like we said , 39% chance for them to hit .

8 outs > 6 outs

lets try it out ok ? worked for me, how about you?

Play hand

$0.02/$0.04 No-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

Known players:
[tg]UTG1$4.88:///////;UTG2$7.88:///////;MP1 (Hero)$5.00:///////;MP2$9.02:///////;MP3$15.35:///////;CO$5.00:///////;BU$6.87:///////;SB$5.00:///////;BB$5.00:///////;[/tg]

Preflop: Hero is MP1 with 6:s, 6:h.
2 folds, Hero raises to $0.16, 3 folds, BU raises to $0.70, 2 folds, Hero calls $0.54.

Flop: ($1.46) 5:d, 5:s, K:h (2 players)
Hero bets $1.04, BU folds, Hero gets uncalled bet back.

Final Pot: $1.46.

Just remember one thing , everytime you win with a hand that shouldnt win you are bending the laws of probability. Matrix

Great work Grailer. Calling a 3bet OOP with 66. Chance of hitting a set is ~15% and most of the times you won't get paid off.

Originally posted by EgertS

Great work Grailer. Calling a 3bet OOP with 66. Chance of hitting a set is ~15% and most of the times you won't get paid off.

Obviously I intended to use my position to bluff him . Which I achieved .

At least I didnt have 72 .

Speaking of getting paid off when you hit a set ..

Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

Play hand

$0.02/$0.04 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

Known players:
[tg]SB$5.74:///////;BB$4.96:///////;MP2$3.77:///////;MP3$2.34:///////;CO$2.72:///////;BU (Hero)$5.76:///////;[/tg]

Preflop: Hero is BU with 8:d, 8:h.
MP2 calls $0.04, MP3 calls $0.04, CO folds, Hero raises to $0.16, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.12, MP3 calls $0.12.

Flop: ($0.54) Q:c, K:c, 8:c (3 players)
MP2 bets $0.04, MP3 calls $0.04, Hero raises to $0.34, MP2 raises to $3.61, MP3 folds, Hero calls $3.27.

Turn: ($7.8) 5:d (2 players)

River: ($7.8) 7:h (2 players)

Final Pot: $7.8.
Results follow:

Hero shows three of a kind, eights(8:d 8:h).
MP2 shows a pair of nines(9:c 9:h).

Hero wins with three of a kind, eights(8:d 8:h).

And well I played this like a set.

Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

Play hand

$0.02/$0.04 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

Known players:
[tg]CO$6.56:///////;BU$5.49:///////;SB$5.50:///////;BB$5.11:///////;MP2$2.63:///////;MP3 (Hero)$9.02:///////;[/tg]

Preflop: Hero is MP3 with K:c, J:c.
MP2 folds, Hero raises to $0.08, CO calls $0.08, 3 folds.

Flop: ($0.22) Q:d, K:s, J:d (2 players)
Hero checks, CO bets $0.16, Hero raises to $0.40, CO folds, Hero gets uncalled bet back.

Final Pot: $0.38.

oops my bad .

Hey Grailer,

Clearly we have all had enough, stop trolling this thread, you have gone way off topic.

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Rule 6: No Trolling

In order to maintain a decent tone and an adequate quality of discussions, Trolling is prohibited on the PS.com forums.

The following is considered trolling:

• Starting an off topic discussion with the intent to disrupt the original thread
• Disruption of an existing discussion
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Regards,

Kyle.

Originally posted by Grailer

Speaking of getting paid off when you hit a set ..

Hand converted with online PokerStrategy.com hand converter:

Play hand

$0.02/$0.04 No-Limit Hold'em (6 handed)

Known players:
[tg]SB$5.74:///////;BB$4.96:///////;MP2$3.77:///////;MP3$2.34:///////;CO$2.72:///////;BU (Hero)$5.76:///////;[/tg]

Preflop: Hero is BU with 8:d, 8:h.
MP2 calls $0.04, MP3 calls $0.04, CO folds, Hero raises to $0.16, 2 folds, MP2 calls $0.12, MP3 calls $0.12.

Flop: ($0.54) Q:c, K:c, 8:c (3 players)
MP2 bets $0.04, MP3 calls $0.04, Hero raises to $0.34, MP2 raises to $3.61, MP3 folds, Hero calls $3.27.

Turn: ($7.8) 5:d (2 players)

River: ($7.8) 7:h (2 players)

Final Pot: $7.8.
Results follow:

Hero shows three of a kind, eights(8:d 8:h).
MP2 shows a pair of nines(9:c 9:h).

Hero wins with three of a kind, eights(8:d 8:h).

I told you won't get paid off MOST of the times. Uploading one hand to prove me wrong is just retarded.

Originally posted by EgertS

I told you won't get paid off MOST of the times. Uploading one hand to prove me wrong is just retarded.

I understand this and this is very important information for people to know
when just calling a raise with small pair.

considering calling a raise from someone who raises UTG you can assume they could have AA KK QQ JJ 1010 or AK if they are tight player.

Say I had 66 , I know right away I can only beat one of those hands and even that is a 43% almost a coin flip at best even if they have AK

If it costs me $16 to see a flop, Im hitting the set 1 in 7.5

7.5 x $16 = $120 just to hit ONE SET! will you get paid that amount?

Now most great players will not be willing to put in that much money into a pot with just 1 pair. Therefore its very tough to make money with small pairs against good players like myself.

Why this is very important to know is because the Starting Hand Chart for BSS suggests calling a raise with 99-22 but in the long run unless you know the player is hyper aggressive donk hes not going to pay you off.

Therefore AK isnt a flip its a bluff representing Aces or Kings.

Applying this information : if I was to raise on button with 66 and someone in BB with stats 23/15/1.5 on a 6 handed table re raises me they could have AK AA KK QQ thus my 66 can't be profitable to play and I must lay it down.

I edited out the example cause its beyond the scope of beginners.

Epic faillll... So much time have been lost to achive nothing I mean post didn't get anywhere. Poker is a situational game. I think most important factors when going all in with AK are table dynamics + looseness of the opponent... If you have been 3betting with craps a lot a bad player may want to fight back when you have AK, then it becomes easy shove.. I never agree with the fact that we have to play post flop with AK... 3bet is almost always necessary..

Grailer, please read my above post.

These threads are created to talk about the topic, not about random hands you played. Go post in your blog or something, imho.

Regards,

Kyle.

\/\/\/Incase you missed it or are to lazey to scroll up\/\/\/

Originally posted by justkyle88
Hey Grailer,

Clearly we have all had enough, stop trolling this thread, you have gone way off topic.

Rule 2: No spam

Spam messages are posts that are off-topic, have no information content or are destructive and therefore interfere with a discussion or thread.

Rule 6: No Trolling

In order to maintain a decent tone and an adequate quality of discussions, Trolling is prohibited on the PS.com forums.

The following is considered trolling:

• Starting an off topic discussion with the intent to disrupt the original thread
• Disruption of an existing discussion
• Discrediting of other members
• Provoking insults
• Repetitive creation of pointless threads
• Posting with the sole intent of disrupting the community

Regards,

Kyle.

Originally posted by justkyle88
Grailer, please read my above post.

These threads are created to talk about the topic, not about random hands you played. Go post in your blog or something, imho.

Regards,

Kyle.

Thanks I edited the post to make it more on topic.

Originally posted by Grailer

Originally posted by justkyle88
Grailer, please read my above post.

These threads are created to talk about the topic, not about random hands you played. Go post in your blog or something, imho.

Regards,

Kyle.

Thanks I edited the post to make it more on topic.

NO one cares...

just gtfo!!!

How accurate is pokertableratings?

Originally posted by h06s
How accurate is pokertableratings?

Seems to be quite off for my HU results but accurate on 6max.

Hey h06s,

There is no need to bump in a old thread. It generally confuses people. I am going to lock this thread now.

Kind Regards,
Toby