[Closed] NL100 QQ in UTG2 - Study hand

20/17/6 after 117 hands. Raise ep 25%; Fold v 3b 75%; Cb 67%.

emm, what is his 4b range? Are you sure he's goin broke w AKo here? I think ppl tending to fold it alot in utg vs mp w\o agro history (btw there was some?)
So i just want to see whether he can call 3b op. Most of good regs just dont do that in 100bb so we have to calculate our equity vs 4betting range already. If ev is bad and he's not calling 3bets vs us we have no choice but to call.
Btw there could be another good reasons to flat - i.e. agro squezers behind us.

4b range 25% (1/4) - not enough hands really. He is 4b/calling AKo here because thats what he showed up with. But agreed, not all regs will.

Mainly Im interested in the general case (e.g. vs avg regular), but maybe there is no such thing

This reminds me my discussions with Skelm regarding polarization. I used to 3bet QQ here almost always when I thought I am ahead of his opening range and he explained me that it is a mistake. The problem is that by 3betting you only isolate against better hands. Exactly as VzLOM said - 3betting against UTG looks too strong.

I would not 3bet here even KK and AA. Calling QQ-AA here has imo these advantages:

1) he puts you on weaker hands than you have which will make him wrongly value bet. On low flop I usually just call flop and turn (or bet/call turn myself) and consider raising on river (usually shove already) or just calling his bet on river. This is really valuable line. They can suckout on you, but calling here and looking weak proved to be very profitable to me here.

2) flat call is perfect invitation to 3bet sq behind you in which case you invested only flat call and if UTG 4bets, you have probably fold. If UTG folds, you can 4bet/call yourself.

3) you don´t get into ugly spots if he 4bets preflop to your 3bet and rather keep the pot small.

4) you keep your position advantage!! You can use it up better in the slowly played spot rather than shoving preflop.

5) you can overplay your opponent

6) if you 3bet, he folds worse hands since your 3bet looks too strong. So rather call IP and not isolate against better hands

♠_cool:

Thank you, thank you, thank you!!
Excellent advice -- really appreciate it.

Happy to help, but you already realized it yourself before, I just put the "names" to ideas you felt yourself. I think it´s what this forum is about

. I wanted to post hand here but have problem with hand converter

Originally posted by Tim64
Calculations:

EV of 3b

0.85*$5 (1+0.5+3.5) = $4.25

0.15*(0.4*200+1.5 - 100) = 0.15*- $19.4 = $-2.91
EV =$1.34

EV of call

Of course I'm overanalysing as usual.
Imo you can't overanalyse, you can only outlevel yourself ♦

Does anyone have any general thoughts on this spot?
I guess Jekyll covered it pretty much, but

from your calculation above and Jekylls post you can also draw some conclusions and take this one step further:
Since your perceived 3bettingrange from this position is very strong you have a lot of foldequity so you don't want to "waste" your strong hands by 3betting them.
What this means is you can start 3betbluffing in this position, everybody will give you a lot of credit - once they realize you call your strong hands and 3betbluff all the time you can stop bluffing and actually 3bet QQ+,AK MP vs UTG and get paid off.

Originally posted by Bierbaer
from your calculation above and Jekylls post you can also draw some conclusions and take this one step further:
Since your perceived 3bettingrange from this position is very strong you have a lot of foldequity so you don't want to "waste" your strong hands by 3betting them.
What this means is you can start 3betbluffing in this position, everybody will give you a lot of credit - once they realize you call your strong hands and 3betbluff all the time you can stop bluffing and actually 3bet QQ+,AK MP vs UTG and get paid off.

Wow, this is soo right and sick as well ♦ Imagine some good reg just move to your site from different site (e.g. moves to FT from PokerStars) and starts his new nick on FT. He is already experienced so he is aware of this and plays in a following way:

1) He always flat calls QQ+ and AK.
2) He 3betbluffs 4% of his range - I guess suited connectors are the best for this move. (with pocket pair you rather set mine IP as you don´t want them fold pre too much).

Then, as you are good player and got 3-betted by opponent who only 3bets 4% of his range (you view it as pretty much QQ+ and AK), you always fold AK and QQ vs him when you are OOP. So he collects lot of money from you and in case he flat calls you with his monsters, he collects a lot of money from you again ♦

OMG, poker is such a sick game. You have to count with "experience of player" when interpreting his stats.

ON NL200 recently I caught one winning regular-player with 3% bet range squeezing total rubbish vs UTG opener and MP call (I was MP caller with KK) and I was so surprised about it. I only called my KK pre and played pretty cautious on low board all the way down to SD (just c/c flop, turn and river) as I was afraid of Aces. He Cbetted, checked behind turn and barreled river half the pot. In the end, he showed up with Q7s ♦

This may be due to above reasons...

Originally posted by jekyll001
Then, as you are good player and got 3-betted by opponent who only 3bets 4% of his range (you view it as pretty much QQ+ and AK), you always fold AK and QQ vs him when you are OOP. So he collects lot of money from you and in case he flat calls you with his monsters, he collects a lot of money from you again ♦

Yes, but as you see him showing up with QQ+ in a spot like this you can easily adjust by 4betbluffing his MP-vs-UTG3bets.

Originally posted by jekyll001
OMG, poker is such a sick game.

Hell yeah! ♦