It is just waay to sick! I just made a break to post this, graph is from my sessions yesterday and today on PokerStars. Playing NL25 FR BSS atm.
Somehow I am still managing to play my A game, this is just toooo HILARIOUS to put you on tilt.
Look at the graph and just try to count/imagine the number of suckouts...
I'm going back to tables to see when this ends ♠_evil: aaawwwrrrrr
Cheers
dRb
Just think of the great feeling to come when it does equalize back ♠_biggrin:
And somehow you still managed to "only" lose $60. That's good 
Originally posted by luizsilveira
Just think of the great feeling to come when it does equalize back ♠_biggrin:And somehow you still managed to "only" lose $60. That's good
Originally posted by Slimijs
Well I am 110$ under EV in NL25 atm. Not a great feeling
Guys! I am sorry to deny your thoughts/hopes that someday it will equalise!
Your net winnings will never magically converge with your all in EV cuz if you're a good +EV player you will rarely suckout on other players ! They can only go farther and farther apart, cuz most of the time you play shove you will try to be ahead of the villain!
It's the reality every good grinder should accept, dunno for higher but at least at micro and low stakes
I don't expect to run @ EV or above it, I just had to post this cuz it is a thing waaay to sick to survive in two sessions. I've quit this session with acceptable -2bi ♠_cool:.
And yeah, REMEMBER, that actually running far above EV for a large sample size is a sign of very BAD play in which case you should seriously question your skill/mindset ! Just think of it
Cheers every1dRb
Originally posted by drbloody
Originally posted by luizsilveira
Just think of the great feeling to come when it does equalize back ♠_biggrin:And somehow you still managed to "only" lose $60. That's good
Originally posted by Slimijs
Well I am 110$ under EV in NL25 atm. Not a great feelingGuys! I am sorry to deny your thoughts/hopes that someday it will equalise!
Your net winnings will never magically converge with your all in EV cuz if you're a good +EV player you will rarely suckout on other players ! They can only go farther and farther apart, cuz most of the time you play shove you will try to be ahead of the villain!
It's the reality every good grinder should accept, dunno for higher but at least at micro and low stakes
I don't expect to run @ EV or above it, I just had to post this cuz it is a thing waaay to sick to survive in two sessions. I've quit this session with acceptable -2bi ♠_cool:.
And yeah, REMEMBER, that actually running far above EV for a large sample size is a sign of very BAD play in which case you should seriously question your skill/mindset ! Just think of it
Cheers every1dRb
Im sorry but you have this entirely wrong! EV is EV and doesnt care which side of a domination your on. A good player doesnt go above EV over a large sample by sucking out a lot, they go above EV by not getting sucked out on as much as they 'deserve'. If you win a bunch of 70/30 flips in a row, your still gona be a ton above EV despite only 'playing well'. Or if you win 5 AA vs KK all in preflop in a row, thats a whole buyin above EV! But you certainly never made any bad plays going all in preflop with AA...
Hope that clears things up...
cheers,Jan
Damn, that's tough, the only rational option I see is.. try going to fuck yourself
Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
Damn, that's tough, the only rational option I see is.. try going to fuck yourself
weeeeeeeeeeeee
Originally posted by ihufa
Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
Damn, that's tough, the only rational option I see is.. try going to fuck yourselfweeeeeeeeeeeee
what's up mannnn
I know the feeling dr bloody, your not alone here mate. I was grinding Stars Dec and Jan, had a great Dec as a new member, then went +$685 Ev for a result of -$285 in about 10k of hands through Jan. Didnt know whether to laugh or cry, it was just so amusingly sad 
?(
Originally posted by NightFrostaSS
Damn, that's tough, the only rational option I see is.. try going to fuck yourself
LoL what do you mean ? I don't like the way you've put that 
Originally posted by Jan217
Im sorry but you have this entirely wrong! EV is EV and doesnt care which side of a domination your on. A good player doesnt go above EV over a large sample by sucking out a lot, they go above EV by not getting sucked out on as much as they 'deserve'. If you win a bunch of 70/30 flips in a row, your still gona be a ton above EV despite only 'playing well'. Or if you win 5 AA vs KK all in preflop in a row, thats a whole buyin above EV! But you certainly never made any bad plays going all in preflop with AA...Hope that clears things up...
cheers,Jan
Nothing was unclear to me ♠_confused: !? What are you trying to clear up ?
Good players are doomed running below EV and should accept that... just think of it twice!!
What are you talking about !?!?!? "EV doesn't care" !? like if "EV" was an entity ? can EV think, maybe EV even has a central nervous system ♠_evil:
I am sorry m8 but I fail to see what are you trying to clear up or talking about!?
If you win a 70/30 flip in your favor u're not gonna run above ev u'll be exactly at it, no matter how many times you do! You can't go above EV with AA vs KK, only below. Why so many ppl around just pollute these forums trying to be smartasses without having basic idea what they're talking about !!
I'm sorry but you have this entirely wrong! Jan! 
Originally posted by drbloody
Originally posted by Jan217
Im sorry but you have this entirely wrong! EV is EV and doesnt care which side of a domination your on. A good player doesnt go above EV over a large sample by sucking out a lot, they go above EV by not getting sucked out on as much as they 'deserve'. If you win a bunch of 70/30 flips in a row, your still gona be a ton above EV despite only 'playing well'. Or if you win 5 AA vs KK all in preflop in a row, thats a whole buyin above EV! But you certainly never made any bad plays going all in preflop with AA...Hope that clears things up...
cheers,Jan
Nothing was unclear to me ♠_confused: !? What are you trying to clear up ?
Good players are doomed running below EV and should accept that... just think of it twice!!
What are you talking about !?!?!? "EV doesn't care" !? like if "EV" was an entity ? can EV think, maybe EV even has a central nervous system ♠_evil:
I am sorry m8 but I fail to see what are you trying to clear up or talking about!?
If you win a 70/30 flip in your favor u're not gonna run above ev u'll be exactly at it, no matter how many times you do! You can't go above EV with AA vs KK, only below. Why so many ppl around just pollute these forums trying to be smartasses without having basic idea what they're talking about !!I'm sorry but you have this entirely wrong! Jan!
It depends exactly how EV is calculated (I don't know, so I can't say who is right here)... But I understand what is Jan trying to tell you. Your EV in a 70/30 flip is not a whole stack, but 70% of the stack in the long run... If you win (just an example number) 100 such 70/30 flips in a row, you will be actually 30% over your EV. Because you were not expected to winn all 100 flips, but only 70. At least that's what I understand he was tryying to tell you.
Originally posted by TiciBoy
It depends exactly how EV is calculated (I don't know, so I can't say who is right here)... But I understand what is Jan trying to tell you. Your EV in a 70/30 flip is not a whole stack, but 70% of the stack in the long run... If you win (just an example number) 100 such 70/30 flips in a row, you will be actually 30% over your EV. Because you were not expected to winn all 100 flips, but only 70. At least that's what I understand he was tryying to tell you.
The problem is that all in EV is not calculated that way, neither by PT3 nor by HEM. IE: if you are the underdog when going all in and win you will go above ev, the same goes for the contrary - if you were a favorite and loose you go below the corresponding amount.
All that meaning that EV calculation by the software we use is seriously flawed...
both go all in for 10 bucks AA vs KK, pot is 20 bucks, so the player who has AA his winnings line will either go +10 or -10, but the EV line will always go +8,2$ because AA vs KK is 82% vs 18%
Originally posted by drbloody
Originally posted by TiciBoy
It depends exactly how EV is calculated (I don't know, so I can't say who is right here)... But I understand what is Jan trying to tell you. Your EV in a 70/30 flip is not a whole stack, but 70% of the stack in the long run... If you win (just an example number) 100 such 70/30 flips in a row, you will be actually 30% over your EV. Because you were not expected to winn all 100 flips, but only 70. At least that's what I understand he was tryying to tell you.
The problem is that all in EV is not calculated that way, neither by PT3 nor by HEM. IE: if you are the underdog when going all in and win you will go above ev, the same goes for the contrary - if you were a favorite and loose you go below the corresponding amount.
All that meaning that EV calculation by the software we use is seriously flawed...
I don't know about how the code was written but one thing is for sure on my PT3: if I go all in with JJ vs. AK, my EV line stays pretty much EVEN no matter what the result. So yes, if I lose the flip of, say, $2, I'll be $1 below EV. If I win the flip, I'll be $1 up. I'm speaking roughly, of course.
So I'll suppose the exact same happens in the AA vs. KK example, just changing the EV (sorry to be obvious).
So I think the EV line should equalize yes indeed, in the so-spoken-of-long-run. Because even if you go ahead (say the AA vs. KK) and you win, you will still be ABOVE EV. Your EV in that case, same $2 heads-up pot, is roughly $0.80 (80%), so if you win the $2 you'll be $0.20 above your EV line. If you lose it, though, you'll be $1.80 below (the EV line went up 80c, your winnings went down $1).
That's why you "feel" more when you take a beat and the EV is hugely off (in this case, $1.80, even if you only put $1 in the pot). But it should equalize, because if you keep putting it as a favorite and winning, you will be catching up the EV line slowly.
But all that goes for all-ins only as it is on PT3. I don't know about HEM but I'd guess it's the same. So... if you go all-in once AA vs. KK and lose, then win 10 pots in a row with AA vs. KK on a NON-all-in pot, your winnings will still be way below EV line.
So... get those chips in the middle when you are a favorite and it will equalize
edited to complete the post and correct some sums.
