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Nl100 Qq

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axelphoney
Joined: 03.10.2009

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $1(BB) Replayer
SB ($230)
BB ($118)
UTG ($113)
Hero ($104)
CO ($100)
BTN ($323)

Dealt to Hero Q♣ Q♠

fold, Hero raises to $3.50, CO calls $3.50, fold, fold, fold

FLOP ($8.50) 7♠ 2♣ 4♣

Hero bets $6, CO raises to $18, Hero calls $12

TURN ($44.50) 7♠ 2♣ 4♣ 8♥

Hero checks, CO bets $34, Hero folds

CO wins $42.28

villain: 23/18/3/17 - 1k hands, 15% raise cbet flop (27)

A few orbits earlier he raised my cbet on a similiar board and folded. It might not say that much, more than he may just have had a hand, but anyway I guess it is worth mentioning.

So now he is raising me again, and I feel obligated to call. But from then on my plan is pretty vague. Not sure how I proceed vs turn- and riverbets.

What is is repping or value is sets, as semibluff I guess there are AT-AJs, KQs, maybe even T9s (all hands with FD obv).

How about his sizing on the turn? To me it looks like he either has a made hand (set) that he wants to protect to the fullest, or that he has some overs+FD that he wants to be able to call of against a c/R.

Plugged in a range of 77,22,44,AT-AJs,KQs,T9s (clubs) and against that range I am crushed (~25% equity). So after all maybe just fold the flop until I find out that he is raising flop cbets very light and often? I still had the feeling that he could raise just some random overcards, figuring I miss this board very often. But maybe not a good idea to play after a " feeling", so fold flop?


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8 replies
Rostek42
Joined: 08.12.2008

Why not re-rasie on the flop ? There is many cards on turn that would stop him beting and you're out of position. It will by hard for you to get more value on that kind of board.


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axelphoney
Joined: 03.10.2009

What worse hands do you think he would raise here?


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First of all: bet/call flop and c/f kind of a blank turn is the worst line here. If he is bluffing, he is almost always betting again there (at least I am).
These low boards are usually good for bluffing (semibluffing) and some players might do that often. If he earlier raised flop and folded later, it means that he is capable of bluffing flops with air.
I would 3b it on flop or bet/call flop and c/r on turn.

Ofcourse bet/fold flop is an option if you think opponent doesnt raise flops with weaker hands.


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axelphoney
Joined: 03.10.2009

Originally posted by axelphoney

A few orbits earlier he raised my cbet on a similiar board and I folded. It might not say that much, more than he may just have had a hand, but anyway I guess it is worth mentioning.

Forget the magic I. He didn't fold, but I did.

Anyway not sure what to do in these spots. If I go ahead and call, is then a calldown a must? Or what do you think of people's barreling tendencies on nl100? Are they usually following through with 2 more barrels if they bluffraise the flop?

Any feedback is much appreciated!


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axelphoney
Joined: 03.10.2009

Ok so I am gonna break the law here.

Here is another hand where I face a raise with TPTK on the flop:

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $1(BB) Replayer
SB ($83.99)
BB ($116)
UTG ($60.89)
Hero ($100)
CO ($162)
BTN ($37)

UTG posts $1

Dealt to Hero A♣ T♦

UTG checks, Hero raises to $4, CO calls $4, fold, fold, fold, fold

FLOP ($10.50) 2♣ T♣ 9♠

Hero bets $7, CO raises to $20.50, Hero folds

CO wins $23.28

villain: 20/15 - 200 hands, no reads.

Here I have the BDdraw which should reduce some potenial FD+overs combos. But are you still folding here anyway, or bet/call flop, c/C xc, c/f all other cards?


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Bierbaer
Joined: 27.05.2005

Originally posted by kosmonaut111
First of all: bet/call flop and c/f kind of a blank turn is the worst line here. If he is bluffing, he is almost always betting again there (at least I am).
These low boards are usually good for bluffing (semibluffing) and some players might do that often. If he earlier raised flop and folded later, it means that he is capable of bluffing flops with air.
I would 3b it on flop or bet/call flop and c/r on turn.

Ofcourse bet/fold flop is an option if you think opponent doesnt raise flops with weaker hands.

I absolutely agree with this even though vs a range that consists mostly of bluffs I prefer b/c flop, c/sh turn.
Vs an unknown b/3bet is best I think because we don't know how much he bluffs.

In hand 2 (AT) you have to realize that his range as well as ours hit the board a lot more.
So when he raises he has more equity, and additional to that he's not that likely to raise in the first place, strengthening his range even more.
In hand 1 if he's good enough he might even raise JJ/TT for value, whereas in hand 2 99+ crush us.

So hand2 is definitely a b/f for me on the flop, in hand 1 I'd have a hard time b/folding vs a guy that raised before, so it's a b/3bet to me.

In hand1 I either b/f,


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axelphoney
Joined: 03.10.2009

Agree with everything you said about the 2nd hand.

But in the first hand, we are going for the bet/3bet because we think that he might raise light for value, and we base that assumption on that he raised a similiar board earlier (even though we have no clue if it was a bluff/semibluff/value(thinvalue)raise)?

I mean if he is not raising, lets say 99-JJ, we are crushed against his range unless he is also raising some random overcards as a bluff. But this we do not know. The fact that he raised a cbet on a lowboard 2 times in a row tells us at least that it is somewhat more likely that is raising flop cbets light (even though he could just have had 2 good flops).

I may have misunderstood you on some points, but anyway, you say taht against an unknown it is best to bet/3bet. Then again, we will almost never be in good shape if the money goes in, unless we know we are up against an opponent who raises light for value.

Can you just clarify what you meant? I just hate not knowing the why behind a play. :)


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Bierbaer
Joined: 27.05.2005

Sorry I should've clarified in the first place.

His valuerange is extremely small, but he can have semibluffs and ofc bluffs.
Even vs a super worst case range we do quite good:

Board: 7♠4♣2♣
       Equity     Win     Tie
MP2    59.44%  59.44%   0.00% { AA, AcKc, AcJc, KcJc, QcJc, AcTc, KcTc, QcTc, JcTc, Tc9c, 9c8c, 8c7c, 7c6c }
MP3    40.56%  40.56%   0.00% { QsQc }

He can hardly raise/fold a FD as our range for bet/3betting in his eyes looks the same as his in our eyes.

This is the scenario for him when he has a NFD:

Board: 7♠4♣2♣
       Equity     Win     Tie
MP2    55.83%  55.66%   0.17% { AcTc }
MP3    44.17%  44.00%   0.17% { AA, AcKc, AcJc, KcJc, QcJc, AcTc, KcTc, QcTc, JcTc, Tc9c, 9c8c, 8c7c, 7c6c }

But again b/3b is best vs an unknown, he raised twice before so he is not unknown anymore - vs him I'd call the flopraise to bluffcatch.


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