Discussion Thread: Chip Value

Originally posted by ilostmysoul
This is way too confusing, I don't understand anything.

Hi ilostmysoul,
You posted this in an old thread about chip value, but your post sounds like you're try to use an ICM trainer.

If that is the case, perhaps create a new thread in the forum for SNG discussions:
https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/forum/board.php?boardid=1428

If you question is about the meaning of ICM itself, the very first post in this thread has some links to articles and videos that might help.

All the best,
VS

Have not used icm trainer in long time but usually in such training software you first define price structure and possibly some other things before starting training. Some default settings are probably in use if you dont define any of them.

Originally posted by VorpalF2F

Originally posted by ilostmysoul
This is way too confusing, I don't understand anything.

Hi ilostmysoul,
You posted this in an old thread about chip value, but your post sounds like you're try to use an ICM trainer.

If that is the case, perhaps create a new thread in the forum for SNG discussions:
https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/forum/board.php?boardid=1428

If you question is about the meaning of ICM itself, the very first post in this thread has some links to articles and videos that might help.

All the best,
VS

Thanks for answering!

Well the link on those articles links to this discussion, hence why I decided to post it here, thought this was an active thread, and I didn't want to create a new one since this concerns mostly those articles. The thing is, I'm still struggling with the concept, as in what I need to know and how to apply it. The articles only show what ICM means and an overview, but they don't really go into "Ok so when you're in this situation where you are facing the big blind and you're unsure whether to push or fold, look around and see if you there any smaller stacks and then check if bla bla bla". This sort of logic is missing and I'm unable to put these pieces together. What should I take into account so I can use this when making a decision without going through calculations that I can't make at the table? So when I'm in the ICM training tool I'm only going with my instincts, I have no idea what I'm supposed to be thinking about.

And what am I supposed to do with this knowledge at a tournament, actually be thinking about how each opponent's stack converts to money and what my ICM is, or thinking in more broad strokes, as in, okay I'm the bubble, I should put some pressure on with hands like any Ks because saving my chips won't get me that far in terms of the prize pool, even if I risk losing? I didn't even find these applications in the articles, I had to find it somewhere else.

How heavy ICM effect is depends on stack setup and price pool structure. How to learn rough idea of plausible shoving/calling ranges? Do lot of studying on different player amount and stack setups with some ICM tool like HRC or ICMizer. Not sure if there is decent free tool.

Apply things you have learned during play, mark situations you are unsure and check them again before next session. Rinse and repeat. That will give you more and more accurate idea of default nash ranges.

That is ok starting point. Once you are at this spot you can better start to adjust to player pool tendencies or reads in your games. E.g. what recreational players tend to do is to be less aggressive in shoving compared to nash. Also their calling range tend to be more static. So if they need to be really tight according to nash then they likely call too wide and in other spots where they should call wide they are likely too tight.

ICM says that in non winner take all games chips won has less value than chips lost. This is especially true when player is middle stacked in bubble. E.g. if we talk about 6man or 9man sng bubble it's theory wise best to put pressure on middle stacks as they are more risk averse than short stack. This apply to mtt bubbles or final table as well but in less extent because of smaller ICM tax.

But really best way to study how stack setups affect to ranges is to change them in ICM tool and see how ranges change.

Thanks a lot. I'm on a path of re-learning poker. Had been absent for couple year and starting all-over at start it was more like just a leftovers of fundamentals and loads of error plays. Hopefully, this website get's me back in the game ICM is a great concept, atleast helps you to put an extra tough on price pool, theory of SnG and +ROI.

Hi Olifatas,
Since you're silver, you'll be able to read each of these strategy articles that discuss this concept...
(assuming you haven't already)
The Principle of Diminishing Chip Value
The Fundamentals of the Independent Chip Model (ICM)
Application of the ICM
The Risk Premium Concept

Best of luck :gl:,
VS\

Aplicando estrategia!!! Fold or Push