Skip to forum
Notifications
Clear all

Micro-Management

56 Posts
14 Users
1 Reactions
12.5 K Views
MasochisticDesire
Joined: 25.10.2010

Originally posted by iambensson
i check my result every 3 minutes

Ha! So might I if I played NL500z

Originally posted by woodmo
There's absolutely no need for checking result during grind. It wont help you one bit, it will only make u play worse, or if u are solid in mental-game stuff it will not effect you at all.. but why take the risk right? Maybe you think u can handle to see your graph when you are loosing 2-5 stacks. But in fact u will be tilting without knowing it.

All solid chat! Thanks.
I have always struggled with removing myself from the results (which I will elaborate on in a monthly wrap-up) and to some extent this has been exaggerated by my rocket start to Jan.

* * *

I owe 5k hands to hit the weekly minimum volume and a crazy busy schedule that includes not being able to play at all over the weekend. I am posting this boring shite as evidence of my accountability. A pledge to put my money where my mouth is and not become a fair-weather goal getter. Speaking of which, it just started bloody snowing!!! :facepalm:

* * *
Later:
Wrote that at work without PT4 and I actually owed more then I thought - 6.5k for weekly target and 5.5k for the month (now 5.5 and 4.5 respectively.) I am going to shoot for the 30k hands a month and 4.5k hands with basically only tomorrow night to get it done. :f_cry:

Pfff, so I got the hands in on Friday night but it was a fucking disaster.
I was shattered after a long week and my attention span and emotional discipline waned halfway through but, 'hey! I said I'd get it done and that is that.' I was pretty delirious towards the end, in the small hours of the morning, hating every hand and auto-piloting my D game :f_cry: Only running a ton over EV saved me from a very big losing session. To boot, we then got smashed in our 6 point, potential relegation battle and I, among others, had a bad one - dunno if I'll be starting this weekend :f_frown:

I am happy to have hit the 30k hands I set as the goal for the month but if I am going to have (relatively) high volume targets and hope to be somewhere close to my potential then I am going to have to be more structured in my approach and play more regular, shorter sessions.

Discipline! I'm sure I am by no means the first to say it but I think that discipline is the key character trait a player needs to work on if they want to succeed in poker; non more then myself as I have the emotional self-indulgence of a toddler. Structure and correct practice will sort this out in regards to poker though.

Final week of Jan:

Caught up with a great friend in London on Sunday and that turned the week around.

Peace!


Reply
Quote
MasochisticDesire
Joined: 25.10.2010

January Wrap-Up:

January Goals:

:heart: 30k hands (<40 due to late start)
:heart: begin working through w34z3l's walk-through
:heart: >1,500 VPPs for Ultimate Challenge Bonus ($50)
:heart: Ideally shoot @ NL10

Hit my target of 30k hands - started with the Walkthrough (more on that later) - well on the way to completing the bonus and certainly won't miss it - currently playing NL10. All-in-all, not a bad start to the challenge. Hit some run good to fly through the levels I have played before (NL5) and jump into the NL10 games where I am sure I will be a winner if I can avoid beating myself.

Some pretty(ish) pictures -
BB won through Jan:

Results ($) by position:

Small sample but would like to see greater winning from the BTN and MP > UTG winnings. Will keep an eye on that.

Bankroll = $300
All-In Adj BB/100 = 8/100

WARNING: Gunna be some words below....

Overall I am happy with my progress and couldn't ask for much more from my first 30k hands back into poker. All that said, the minor implosion at the end of the month has left me with a lot (even more) to think on.

I was listening to that nut-ball JoeyIngram1 on youtube and his 'friend of the podcast,' Leforte, made a very interesting point - that poker is one of the few professions in which you can get very good at in a matter of years, where as in a lot of other professions and careers it would take a lifetime to reach a comparable level. This seems pretty obvious to me but actually hearing it stated so matter-of-fact forced several considerations - if you take this statement as fact and your progress does not reflect the time you have invested, then either you are not working hard enough, you are not working effectively enough, or most likely, both. I fall into the 'both' category.

Accepting that your success or failure at something is almost entirely dictated by your level of application to it, is equally liberating and terrifying. This is true of almost everything in our lives but so many of us have built lives where there are ceilings to our achievements and safety nets to our failures and so we forget and simply trudge on. We join the masses of the mediocre and trade our ambitions, hopes and dreams for stability and pretty soon we forget to dream at all and have forgotten how to take a risk. We make this trade willingly (even if subconsciously) as there is no longer any excuses for our failures if we truly commit to something and still fall short. I think I have been scared of failure for far too long. Ooops, my bad, just unloading my mid-twenties at you there.

Back on track - In my experience, however, applying yourself to poker is full of pit-falls - As a beginner there are so many spots in every session where I have no idea what would be correct, so much second guessing and grey areas. To make that worse there are all the meta game considerations that constantly need work, such as your tilt control, coping with variance, putting the volume in, bla bla bla. I find it hard to know where to start tackling poker. So, whilst I am sure you can be successful at this game in a short period of time (relative to other professions) it won't happen unless you can use that time effectively and have a lot of structure to your learning. I am chuffed, therefore, to have found w34z3l's Walk-through to give the foundations of my learning some structure and I am going to make a big deal of 'Proper Practice' to build on the discipline and meta-game considerations.
I will ramble more another time, but writing this nonsense is time consuming and I don't feel I express myself particularly well. It is also, in essence, another form of procrastination.

Proper Practice:
Weekly Schedule
- Allowing for more frequent, shorter sessions to maintain minimum volume targets.
- Incorporate session and HH reviews. (This is paramount and thus far I haven't done any.)
- Don't play tired - need a day with no table time through the week.

RESULTS!
- Fuck the results, quit checking. Only check results on Sunday for weekly review.
- Don't play overly long sessions or when knackered.

Goal Setting
- Set goals that encourage application and not results.

February

:heart: 10k hands/ week, 40k hands/month - all spread more evenly with less last minute long sessions.
:heart: Solidify PFR, Iso-Raise, 3bet and defense ranges. I have been using w34z3l's ranges as a foundation so far but still don't have them committed to memory (mine was rotted by drugs many years ago) and they won't stick until I create my own having considered every hand and why they are in or out of certain ranges.
:heart: Gold status on Stars.
:heart: Only check results on Sunday for weekly review.
:heart: Session reviews Needs further clarification.

Some bullet-point BS:
- I don't really use my HUD. NL10 player pool is huge and I have valuable stats on very few players. That said, the basics are always worthwhile and it needs colour coordinating - I have no idea where to begin with this though, not knowing what a 'typical' percentage for certain stats might be.
- Learn to fold the damn river you calling-station.
- Benefit to my game already thanks to the Walkthrough is that I 3b a hell of a lot less but think I am making more value from increasing my cold-calling range from all positions. I also dodge more rake and get into less tricky spots (CO especially.) Good stuff and a mini aha! moment.
- Found that I have $260 TAF bonus here on ps.com that I didn't know about - might buy Gold status as there seems to be a huge jump in the number of good videos available at gold.

That's enough.
GL@thetables.

Sexy Thread Saver:

Spoiler


:yaoming:


Reply
Quote
gadget51
Joined: 23.06.2008

Hi MD,

If you like you can uncheck the 'Show Player Name option for graphs in PT4 and it won't then show publicly. Look to the panel on the left under the 'Graphs' tab.

I'm having similar problems remembering starting ranges to.

Good luck. :)

Mal.


Reply
Quote
nmilan84
Joined: 21.07.2010

Ok. Definitely following!
Am on a similar path, but on regular tables. My trouble is that most of my work is in the evening, so my grinding time is during the day, but i guess on micros, You can find recreational players all the time.

GL @ the tables :f_drink:


Reply
Quote
MasochisticDesire
Joined: 25.10.2010

Originally posted by gadget51
Hi MD,

If you like you can uncheck the 'Show Player Name option for graphs in PT4 and it won't then show publicly. Look to the panel on the left under the 'Graphs' tab.

I'm having similar problems remembering starting ranges to.

Good luck. :)

Mal.

Thanks, Mal, I still couldn't work this out :facepalm:
Checked out your blog though - certainly not for wimps, how about that first post, aye! :f_ugly:
I hope you are make a full recovery and all the best.

Ok. Definitely following!
Am on a similar path, but on regular tables. My trouble is that most of my work is in the evening, so my grinding time is during the day, but i guess on micros, You can find recreational players all the time.

GL @ the tables :f_drink:

Hi nmilan84,

Good to have you along buddy.
I agree that the micros should be very beatable at any time - yes, you will get less donations, but if we are not beating these limits comfortably (not convinced I am yet, certainly loads of work to do) then I think it safe to assume we just need to improve. This is another reason I value zoom tables over regular tables, as I am trying to strengthen the foundations of my game rather then make profit and I think Zoom is probably the best arena for this. I hope to spend a fair bit of volume at reg tables playing a more exploitative style later on when I am confident enough in my default game that I don't start confusing my playstyle and second guessing my understanding of key principles of the game.
GL with your grind (and the dancing) fella.

* * * * *

Pfff, I am sure that this is sounding familiar now, but I have 'got it all to do' again regarding my volume targets as I have put in a jaw-dropping 2.5k hands so far this month :appl: What was I doing you ask? Well, I had to move to a larger room in the same house and tidy the old one, that stole a little time, but... essentially I was degening this game from my childhood

I am twenty-bloody-eight for God's sake :facepalm:

Spoiler

I regret nothing :coolface:

What brought me back to putting in some volume is realizing my 'subconscious payoff' for not applying myself in the areas I said I would - yep, that old chestnut that I have spoken of before, the fear of giving it your best and fecking it all up. This is largely due to my poor form in my last session and exaggerated by some burnout as my approach to my volume targets has me playing more then I would like in a short period of time. Realizing this, I got back on it yesterday evening. (Though I still intend to complete Zelda at some point, I'm using a walkthrough and everything :profit: )

I ultimately want to get to a stage where I am playing low to medium volume sessions almost every night through the week and a longer session a day of the weekend - for now though, pressure is back on and I am in danger of missing out on the P*s Ultimate Challenge Bonus. This is only $50 and it wouldn't be the end of the world to miss it except that it would be admitting that my laziness and ill discipline directly cost me money. 'Zis, I cannot allow.'

So :pcuser: I need 437 vpp by 22:21 Sat 14th which I think will be between 10&12k hands. GL


Reply
Quote
gadget51
Joined: 23.06.2008

Hi again MD,

I made a valiant attempt at some artwork for you! :f_thumbsup:

Just uncheck 'Show Player Name'


Regards,

Mal.


Reply
Quote
MasochisticDesire
Joined: 25.10.2010

Thanks, Mal, I appreciate your time and it will come in handy when I write up the following ...

* * *

So :pcuser: I need 437 vpp by 22:21 Sat 14th which I think will be between 10&12k hands. GL

And ... I fecking got it!!! @ 22:18 I was 6 VPPs short. I assume that the VPPs update every 5 minutes because at 22:20. literally 1 minute to spare, I hit the target.
Had to add 2 NL25 tables to get there and actually lost the $50 I got for the bonus but I am still just chuffed to have hit the target :f_drink:
Crazy tilting week too including a disciplinary at work and losing our relegation battle 8-2 :f_frown: but dragged my arse to the finish line.
I'll write it all up tomorrow, but now - I'm watching the rugby.


Reply
Quote

Thanks for the post. It has helped me a lot to learn some new tricks on poker.


Reply
Quote
MasochisticDesire
Joined: 25.10.2010

Originally posted by vincenttafolla979
Thanks for the post. It has helped me a lot to learn some new tricks on poker.

errr, thanks pal, I'll be equally pleased and astonished if these ramblings turn out to be of some use to anybody :f_pleased:

* * *
Mid-Month Review/Random Spiel

Originally posted by MasochisticDesire

So :pcuser: I need 437 vpp by 22:21 Sat 14th which I think will be between 10&12k hands. GL

And ... I fecking got it!!! @ 22:18 I was 6 VPPs short. I assume that the VPPs update every 5 minutes because at 22:20. literally 1 minute to spare, I hit the target.
Had to add 2 NL25 tables to get there and actually lost the $50 I got for the bonus but I am still just chuffed to have hit the target :f_drink:
Crazy tilting week too including a disciplinary at work and losing our relegation battle 8-2 :f_frown: but dragged my arse to the finish line.
I'll write it all up tomorrow, but now - I'm watching the rugby.

Yeah, so that is it really. I don't want to elaborate further on the disciplinary at work other than to say that poker is not the only area in which I would benefit from being more disciplined. Having made a mistake, however, I am at least happy with how I responded. In my professional life in general it is clear that, despite having a respectable job, it is a field that is rewarding but doesn't play to my strengths or make me happy and I do not want to be here a couple of years from now. The direction of my life needs a pretty drastic overhaul if I am to achieve half the things I hope to and become half the man I want to be. However, having been more rash in attempting this 'overhaul' as an (even) younger man, I now appreciate the stability I currently have and am gunna cash that in until the time is right.

Anyway, a very stressful week and I was coming home and putting in the volume to hit the bonus mark in a far from ideal mindset. Despite that, I think may game didn't degenerate past my B/C game and a mate who has recently got back into PLO helped keep me on track. Hit the deadline with 1 minute to spare having already lost more than the bonus was worth :f_biggrin: Winning!!!

NL10z so far –

Disclaimer:

Spoiler

'Ere be wordz'
Cliffs in bold.

I am surprised at some of the trends appearing in my graph. Most notably – the declining red line. I know that this is very common among microstakes players (and beyond) but rightly or wrongly, I have always had a breakeven or profitable red line.

First consideration, despite the volume being minimal, would be to check my stats from winning in January to losing in February. There is no notable difference in my basic stats and tendencies at each street although I have opened up slightly from the BTN. Of course, with such a minimal hand sample, it is most likely that I was just on a bit of a heater early on. I will, however, be keeping an eye out for any anomalies that develop and look forward to learning how to do in-depth database analysis just as soon as the sample is large enough to warrant it.

It is true that my previously profitable red line (that has always given me some source of satisfaction) may well have been costing me value overall and acted as a false comfort blanket – for example, as I would 3b hands IP that I now think are more profitable to cold-call etc. Perhaps some of the natural and most profitable adjustments necessary at NL10z will inevitably hit your red line: for example, folding to a large percentage of river raises/bets is probably correct in an environment where typical opponents value-bet very thin, don’t bluff often enough, and river raises are usually weighted very heavily towards nutted hands - these loses from making ‘correct’ folds (but at higher frequency, nevertheless) will hit your red line rather than your blue line taking a greater hit from calling.

Interestingly, the brief period (5k hands or so) in which I felt I did play my most focused poker (the underlined section) actually saw my red line level out but so too did my blue line! Was I just blocking my blue line with my red and missing value?

I feel that I have not yet found the balance of NL10z and I still think that a b/e red line is very achievable. Beyond this, despite the small sample, the above graph is sufficient to reflect that my standard of play thus far is not going to be sufficient to beat the limit. As I have been so focused on volume rather than study, I have certainly not been playing my A game but in general I feel I am still uncertain of the most profitable adaptations required to beat this limit convincingly.

Evidently, first and foremost at the micros, one should make significant progress by just avoiding common post-flop leaks and focusing on getting value from your strong hands and not spaffing off stacks unnecessarily. Whilst an oversimplification, this common advice is relevant.

I have recently started reading Jandas’s bible on GTO NLH, but, whilst I am finding it very interesting, the most relevant piece of information so far has been ‘…if a player folds too frequently, constantly winning small pots from him while refusing to give action on large pots without the near nuts is likely more profitable than playing optimally.’ We knew this already of course…but are we acting on it? So far I think that I am not realizing a lot of high fold-equity spots and am getting drawn into (or betting myself into) far too many marginal river decisions. No doubt that my ‘big pot’ play needs work too and I think the most useful aid in this will be to do more HH reviews.

There are also trends and population reads that I am also acting upon: I don’t station off as much on the river, I am more wary of strong turn lines, double barrelling without strong holdings is rare, typically villains aren’t V-betting thinly enough on the river, etc. However, all these observations lead to passive exploitation, exploitations that save me money but do not extract value. I need to be considering, not just strengthening my ‘default’ strategy, but also what exploitations are going to have the highest expectation for the limit I am playing.

I think that the majority of all of the problems I have noted above stems from how I have been applying myself to poker since the beginning of this challenge. Volume is of course very important in this game, and, working full-time, I am acutely aware that progress is going to be slow without it. That said, applying 100% of my time to putting in the volume will not yield as high a return at these early stages of my development as studying more. I thought for a long while that I might be able to do both. I by no means want to compromise one for the other but it is clear that the balance has been in favor of putting in volume so far this year.

Short and long of it all is that I need to make vast improvements in my game.

That’ll do for now but a more structured approach to my future study will follow.

GL@thetables.


Reply
Quote
Wolfske
Joined: 24.02.2009

Following !

Like you already know:
- I also have a fulltime job
- I also play NL10 zoom
- I also read Janda's book
- I also listen to chillstep music or more rock-type music while grinding

Btw your graph scares me a bit .. :f_o: It seems very similar to what happened to me when I first started playing zoom in august 2014. Afterwards I recovered and even started beating NL25 (at least so I think) before I quit

Gl to you, sent you a private message with my skype


Reply
Quote
MasochisticDesire
Joined: 25.10.2010

Good to have you along, Wolfske. Are you also incredibly good looking and bound to succeed in anything you do? If so - we could be twins :coolface:

I'll shoot you a HH over skype or something.


Reply
Quote
DREAMC4T
Joined: 13.10.2009

You shouldn't worry about your red line. I think especially in micros that if you are playing optimally (NOT gto though, as it's not the optimal way to approach micros) you wont have a positive red line. Nice January graph!


Reply
Quote
MasochisticDesire
Joined: 25.10.2010

Hey DREAMC4T,
Nice of you to drop by.

Originally posted by DREAMC4T
You shouldn't worry about your red line.

I appreciate any and all feedback though I think that this popular advice is, and always has been, a huge oversimplification used to stop people making inappropriate adjustments to boost their red line at the detriment of their blue and green. I appreciate it nonetheless as it may stop me doing just that.

I think especially in micros that if you are playing optimally (NOT gto though, as it's not the optimal way to approach micros) you wont have a positive red line.

I agree, I am keen however to keep the losses to a minimum. I think that currently my RL is declining too rapidly and I think that this may be to do with my barreling tenancies and how I react to Cbets on flop and turn. I am trying to work on this.

Thanks for the feedback - it serves as a reminder that whilst I do want to keep the RL in check there are certainly enough spots where my BL is being hampered by my fishy play and this will of course be my primary focus

Nice January graph!

Cheers pal, my NL10 will look the same soon enough.


Reply
Quote
MasochisticDesire
Joined: 25.10.2010

February is proving a tough month both on and off the tables but I am making some realisations despite all that. Progress is slower then I would like (again, both on and off the tables) and I have switched to reg tables to rebuild some confidence and cushion the bankroll. More detailed post at the end of the month. Nearly two months off the booze.


Reply
Quote
Wolfske
Joined: 24.02.2009

Don't give up !! :-)

And grats on staying off the booze !


Reply
Quote