Crushing the micros: Now playing Spin & Goes

Overall a very nice month! I kept the promise of this blog "win at least 10bb/100 at the tables" and I am very happy with my results and my game. Even though at the end of the last week I had very though days (at one point I was 11 buy ins below EV in only one day and a half), at the end everything went smoothly and I won a lot of money from fish and regs alike! (I think I have a very laggy image on the tables, my stats are kinda loose for Full-Ring).

More details and stats of the month:

October will be the most hardcore month of my 4-month journey of 2015. I need the money and I probably won't be able to play as much on November-December. So this month I'm planning to play as much as I can, as long as I can, I'm gonna try to play more NL16 and less NL5 and finally I will give a shot to NL25. If everything goes well I hope, really hope, to have a 4-digit month this October! Let's see what happens.

So, the goals (I don't like monetary goals, you should put goals that are totally in your control to achieve - that is hands/hours/articles read/hands posted/etc)

1. Volume: I will be extremely satisfied and very happy if I play more than 100k hands. Satisfied and happy if I play 85k. Dissapointed if I play 70k or less.
2. Limits: To play more NL16 and try NL25. But my biggest volume played will be probably NL10 - and I don't discard NL5, I play for the money anyways and in 5NL I find a lot of fish to fill up my tables.
3. Learning: Comment/post at least 2-3 hands on the forums per week. I'd like to do more, but I already invest a lot of hours playing
Optional: I've also been browsing and found a book called "Modern Small Stakes" by BlackRain79. He is a sicko who has played over 5M hands in NL2 !! But he has actually also beated higher limits, he has a book for the absolut micros and another for NL25-50 which looks interesting (he has a sick winrate). But I'm not sure yet to pay USD 30 for a pdf! hehe. Would anyone like to share the book and the pay with me? Add me in skype (volrath891) for further discussion.

What would you do on this river?

(The PFA is a reg, the caller is a fish)

Grabbed by Holdem Manager
NL Holdem $0.05(BB) Replayer
Hero ($5.28)
BB ($3.93)
UTG ($5.80)
UTG+1 ($6.95)
UTG+2 ($5)
MP1 ($5.48)
MP2 ($13.07)
CO ($5.40)
BTN ($4.13)

Dealt to Hero 5♥ 5♦

fold, fold, UTG+2 raises to $0.15, fold, fold, fold, BTN calls $0.15, Hero calls $0.13, fold

FLOP ($0.50) 5♣ A♠ A♣

Hero checks, UTG+2 bets $0.31, BTN calls $0.31, Hero calls $0.31

TURN ($1.43) 5♣ A♠ A♣ 8♠

Hero checks, UTG+2 bets $0.91, BTN calls $0.91, Hero calls $0.91

RIVER ($4.16) 5♣ A♠ A♣ 8♠ Q♦

Hero checks, UTG+2 bets $3.63 (AI), BTN calls $2.76 (AI), Hero ???

Hi, glad to hear you liked it here in Germany! Happy to learn from you, good luck grinding!

Originally posted by FollowTheSmartMoney
Hi, glad to hear you liked it here in Germany! Happy to learn from you, good luck grinding!

I don't discard making a MsC in Germany... Bonn/Köln seemed like such cool cities to me! (maybe it was because the times I went there I had really good times). Dresden is in my heart as the city I lived for 8 months and ohh it was so nice and cheap (and with a lot of gorgeous girls). I also like Berlin, especially for its entrepeneur-friendly environment, ... I even liked Wolfsburg where I made my internship!

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Report for the "Get rich or die trying challenge"

Week 4 - NL5, NL10, NL16, NL25 FR
Hands: 20538
Profit: +$326.88
Starting BR: $400
Last Week's BR: $819.09
Current BR: $1145.97 (+ 39.9%)
GOAL: $4,000.00

nice giraffe!

also:

Originally posted by Volrath89
Dresden is in my heart as the city I lived for 8 months and ohh it was so nice and cheap (and with a lot of gorgeous girls).

That's my boy!

Very nice! And yes, Dresden is one of the best cities in Germany. Lovely town and relaxing, beautiful places. Seems like you are also doing some fishing off the tables

Originally posted by FollowTheSmartMoney
Very nice! And yes, Dresden is one of the best cities in Germany. Lovely town and relaxing, beautiful places. Seems like you are also doing some fishing off the tables
I was...

Oh well, I suppose it wouldn't be real if I just kept crushing every day, right?

Yesterday and Today I lost ALL my profits in NL25, in just 3-4 hands, awfully played from my side. So up from +100 something in NL25 I'm now -25 or -50 I don't even want to see.

I was also multitasking with another thing, and that helped of course in my lost of focus... I am actually a CEO ... of a tiny e-commerce site. We sell school supplies and books, so we actually only have "a lot" of customers in very specific seasons of the year (after Christmas holidays and at the end of summer). Where I live, after christmas is THE season where everybody needs to buy this products. So that's the biggest reason I'm playing poker for 4 months, I'm gathering money to buy a vehicle for the company before christmas...

So, today I was closing an application (Bewerbung! for my german friends) for government money to help growing the business. Like a loan you don't have to pay back if you reach some sales/profit goals. That money is about USD 30K, so it is kind of important (although doesn't sound like much for a company, but remember here the minimun wage is USD 230/month). And it was also tilting because the government guy who needs to approve the project in the first place was telling me that my numbers didn't match, and it was because he was making mistakes in his sums... That was while a reg payed me a 3bet OOP with A4s on a 235 board and a fish catched top set...

Needed to play hearthstone a bit to relax but guess what.... server maintainance!! noooo

At least I already closed the tables....

And I guess I won't be playing 25 NL in the rest of this week, I need to recover the losses

Originally posted by Volrath89

Originally posted by FollowTheSmartMoney
Very nice! And yes, Dresden is one of the best cities in Germany. Lovely town and relaxing, beautiful places. Seems like you are also doing some fishing off the tables
I was...

Oh well, I suppose it wouldn't be real if I just kept crushing every day, right?

Yesterday and Today I lost ALL my profits in NL25, in just 3-4 hands, awfully played from my side. So up from +100 something in NL25 I'm now -25 or -50 I don't even want to see.

I was also multitasking with another thing, and that helped of course in my lost of focus... I am actually a CEO ... of a tiny e-commerce site. We sell school supplies and books, so we actually only have "a lot" of customers in very specific seasons of the year (after Christmas holidays and at the end of summer). Where I live, after christmas is THE season where everybody needs to buy this products. So that's the biggest reason I'm playing poker for 4 months, I'm gathering money to buy a vehicle for the company before christmas...

So, today I was closing an application (Bewerbung! for my german friends) for government money to help growing the business. Like a loan you don't have to pay back if you reach some sales/profit goals. That money is about USD 30K, so it is kind of important (although doesn't sound like much for a company, but remember here the minimun wage is USD 230/month). And it was also tilting because the government guy who needs to approve the project in the first place was telling me that my numbers didn't match, and it was because he was making mistakes in his sums... That was while a reg payed me a 3bet OOP with A4s on a 235 board and a fish catched top set...

Needed to play hearthstone a bit to relax but guess what.... server maintainance!! noooo

At least I already closed the tables....

And I guess I won't be playing 25 NL in the rest of this week, I need to recover the losses

I actually meant real fishing since I saw your picture but ... sorry to hear, guess it is just what this game is about sometimes unfortunately. It happened to me too this week, I was building my BR at NL 5, running good so far, already thinking about NL10 and got crushed for 12 stacks in just 3 sessions - all winnings of september ruined.

But I think we will eventually win it back though ...
Being a CEO is fine, so you do not really rely on the money by playing poker. I am actually thinking about a total change in my job as well, since there is only a minimum wage and no real perspective involved at the moment here in Germany. I also do not see any more personal fulfilment there. Founding a company is something that has always appealed to me as well, but hardly dependant on money as you said.

Wish you good luck with the fundings, may we recover our losses quickly! It is a journey, who knows where it leads.

Originally posted by FollowTheSmartMoney

I actually meant real fishing since I saw your picture but ... sorry to hear, guess it is just what this game is about sometimes unfortunately. It happened to me too this week, I was building my BR at NL 5, running good so far, already thinking about NL10 and got crushed for 12 stacks in just 3 sessions - all winnings of september ruined.

But I think we will eventually win it back though ...
Being a CEO is fine, so you do not really rely on the money by playing poker. I am actually thinking about a total change in my job as well, since there is only a minimum wage and no real perspective involved at the moment here in Germany. I also do not see any more personal fulfilment there. Founding a company is something that has always appealed to me as well, but hardly dependant on money as you said.

Wish you good luck with the fundings, may we recover our losses quickly! It is a journey, who knows where it leads.

Oh yeah i missed the off the tables part of the sentence :P. I have done fishing in real life only once, in a date...
It's ok to do once, but not so entertaining

12 stacks is a lot! I feel like I'm the worst when I lose 4. It is an effect of going up the limits, I don't understand why one tends to change the own game... one thinks everybody is looser and everybody is bluffing or has air and ends up doing stuff that wouldn't normally do on the lower limits... silly... But silly especially for me that back in the days played some hands of NL200, a lot of NL100 and a hell of a lot of NL50... NL25 shouldn't scare me at all, but oh well today my bankroll is 1/10th or less that it was back in the day too...

I'm a CEO and Co-founder, which means I don't actually have a salary (because the company doesn't yield profits yet). These funds would be our "angel" investment, and the company started with poker money... so actually I do rely a lot on poker money, actually everything kind of expensive I've done in life has been with the help of poker money!

12 stacks is a lot! I feel like I'm the worst when I lose 4. It is an effect of going up the limits, I don't understand why one tends to change the own game... one thinks everybody is looser and everybody is bluffing or has air and ends up doing stuff that wouldn't normally do on the lower limits... silly...

Funny you mention this i have the same problem, although i think i have fixed mine (i hope:f_biggrin:) Have you got the mental game of poker?

Originally posted by FrozenElf

12 stacks is a lot! I feel like I'm the worst when I lose 4. It is an effect of going up the limits, I don't understand why one tends to change the own game... one thinks everybody is looser and everybody is bluffing or has air and ends up doing stuff that wouldn't normally do on the lower limits... silly...

Funny you mention this i have the same problem, although i think i have fixed mine (i hope:f_biggrin:) Have you got the mental game of poker?

Wow, 4 stacks downswing is much? I can only dream of that ... got even worse, 16 stacks down now on NL5, seems like I cannot win a single hand right now. I get several spots like this every day now:

PokerStars - $0.05 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 52 BB (VPIP: 18.52, PFR: 14.81, 3Bet Preflop: 8.33, Hands: 29)
SB: 233.8 BB (VPIP: 23.81, PFR: 19.84, 3Bet Preflop: 11.36, Hands: 129)
BB: 215.8 BB (VPIP: 15.12, PFR: 13.95, 3Bet Preflop: 8.57, Hands: 90)
Hero (UTG): 100.4 BB
MP: 143.8 BB (VPIP: 25.00, PFR: 19.44, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 38)
CO: 180.6 BB (VPIP: 16.67, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 12)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has A♣ A♥

Hero raises to 3 BB, fold, CO calls 3 BB, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (7.4 BB, 2 players) J♠ 2♦ 2♣
Hero bets 4 BB, CO calls 4 BB

Turn: (15.4 BB, 2 players) 7♦
Hero bets 9 BB, CO calls 9 BB

River: (33.4 BB, 2 players) 3♣
Hero bets 16 BB, CO raises to 48 BB, Hero calls 32 BB

First 5 times or so I kept very calm, but now it is concerning me. Had a similar problem on FT in July where I dropped from 100 $ to 25 $ and managed to grind it up to 194 $ now.
Really do not know what is going on, I was running pretty well before, guess my winrate is just not good enough to eliminate the down swings - although I had about 10 BB / 100 on the first 30 k hands.

Time to grab that Tendler book I guess ... don't know what else to do except going to the loser's corner and brag about "rigged", but that is not really my cup of tea ...

Originally posted by FrozenElf
Funny you mention this i have the same problem, although i think i have fixed mine (i hope:f_biggrin:) Have you got the mental game of poker?

I don't have the book, but I suppose I know one thing or two about mental game of poker. Back in the day when I was a "pro" there was a very famous series of videos called "the eightfold path to poker enlightment" (on another poker school), almost 8 hours of mental and mindset game, extremely good btw. I also participated in every coach a philosopher/psychologist and HU player gave on the Spanish community. The theory I think I know it (but of course in learning nothing is ever too much), but the real problem is applying what you know, I think most of us know the ABC Poker very well, and we can play a solid-winning style, the problem stands with applying it at the tables!

Originally posted by FollowTheSmartMoney
Wow, 4 stacks downswing is much? I can only dream of that ... got even worse, 16 stacks down now on NL5, seems like I cannot win a single hand right now. I get several spots like this every day now:

Yeah 4 stacks is a lot to lose! One should aim almost always for the 10 bb/100 winrate nowadays I think, we are not in the golden days anymore where you could play a robotic style up to NL100 (and win big money via rakeback). The AA hand you posted (I didn't look at the results) was an easy fold on the river, no one plays call flop call turn raise river as a bluff, I'd even had a hard time calling the river raise with A2s tbh!! Remember the micros are about hero folds not about hero calls...

Plus I'm gonna say 2 more things which I suppose a lot of people wouldn't agree with, but w/e, it's still what I think:

1. I don't really get why people play zoom tables. The whole point of poker is playing vs weaker players than you, everybody knows the phrase "it doesn't matter if you are the 10th best poker player of the world, if you sit at a table with the top 9, you are the fish". And in Zoom poker the incentive for fish to fold bad hands is just too big, so the format itself makes them play not as bad as always. That would remove the most profitable players ever in the game (or not remove, but at least give them an edge) so the overall bb/100s are gonna be lower for the regs. Ever since the tables came out I think I haven't played a single hand in these kind of tables, why would I play a format where fish are not so fishy?

2. This must be heresy for some people, but w/e I don't care, it's still my opinion. I don't really get why people play SH at the micros. And yeah, I say only at the micros, because for higher limits there are just not enough Full Ring tables (even though the midstakes pros play both, they just play wherever the fish sits). I suppose this is only true if you play in Pokerstars, but why would you play somewhere else actually? They spend the highest amount of money in marketing, so it's pretty obvious for me that there you can find the biggest amount of fish (I've also played in Full tilt, ipoker, 888 and another network so small i dont remember the name, so it's not that I don't have what to compare).

I've read that the competition at pokerstars is the toughest, well, that makes sense and is actually good! It's like in business, if you don't have competition at all it can mean 2 things: 1) you are like the american startups who are really the first into a huge market (uber, airbnb for example) or 2) no one is doing the same you do because the market is too small or not profitable. But when you have competition, the fiercest the better, it means there is actually a lot of money to go for!

Now, what is the difference between FR and SH? Well, you get to see 9 hands per every 1.5 bb you pay in FR while in SH you see 6 hands per every 1.5 bb. That's a lot of difference, 50% of the hands actually you get to see for "free" in FR. That means that the regs are more tight (though not as much as you think, the blinds are still a great battle, I open more than 80% from the SB for example and fold about 50 something from the BB against SB) and there are way less situations in the blinds. In the end that means less variance.

So that forms a virtuous circle which is: Less Variance -> Makes easier to play your A game -> You play your A game more often -> You have a bigger winrate -> Bigger winrate = Less Variance.

If a friend is new to poker and asks me for advice I'd definitely say 1) pick another carrer, poker is not that profitable anymore and 2) if you are still here, play FR cash games, and go up the limits until you don't find enough fish on the FR tables so the only option you have is to play SH (but that doesn't happen until NL100-200 or higher in Stars).

Wow a really long post, congratulations to whoever read this far!

That are really some nice thoughts, especially about playing Zoom. For SH i see it a bit different: people have also in FR an incentive to fold + in SH assume that they need to overplay their hands more.

Agree with SVenBe you can also say in FR they can just nutpeddle like some of them do in Zoom...plus 6max plays more dynamically vs FR is more static, for me I play PLO (which is of course different) but as an example, full ring PLO is only flop nuts hope someone has 2nd nuts then stack off...I'd rather watch paint dry : )

Wow a really long post, congratulations to whoever read this far!

Read the whole post, no biggie

I also play FR, since I started playing poker, currently playing NL5 and aiming NL10 shots. I agree with everything what you said, especially about FR format. I think that FR format is great for learning and playing microstakes until reach midstakes (maybe NL200 at Stars or less at other sites with smaller pool). I also agree about ZOOM but….Little intro…I was playing regular tables till last year and switch to ZOOM, I've started from bottom NL2 and made good progress (20bb/100 or something like that), go up to NL5, winrate decrase by half but still manage to play 4 tables. At NL10 made some money but than hit huge dowswing and lost around 50bi for NL10, drop to NL5 where downswing continue and ended up switching back to regular tables. Few months ago when I saw those ZOOM days, I said to myself „Maybe I wasn't ready for those limits, I need to learn and improve got back and crush those mf“. Thought I wasn't mentally ready for ZOOM so I switch to regular tables where I rebuild my bankroll and now I'm trying again at ZOOM. I know it's mentally flaw of mine but something bugs me and force me to convince myself that I can beat that game. I think that ZOOM is good when you learn because of volume so you can test and apply lines and changes in your game. For now will try ZOOM while learning but I wouldn't mind if I got back playing regular tables.

I've read that the competition at pokerstars is the toughest, well, that makes sense and is actually good! It's like in business, if you don't have competition at all it can mean 2 things: 1) you are like the american startups who are really the first into a huge market (uber, airbnb for example) or 2) no one is doing the same you do because the market is too small or not profitable. But when you have competition, the fiercest the better, it means there is actually a lot of money to go for!

Couldn't agree more, playing with better than yourself makes you have to improve and makes you better.

Originally posted by SvenBe
That are really some nice thoughts, especially about playing Zoom. For SH i see it a bit different: people have also in FR an incentive to fold + in SH assume that they need to overplay their hands more.

Yes, that's true! But considering poker is a game where "most" of the time no one has a hand, "overplaying" hands might not be that much of a mistake actually! And I think fish are fish both in SH and FR, they just play wherever they see an empty seat (and it's easier to find empty seats on 9-seats table than in 6 )

Originally posted by FlyingDutchm1n
Agree with SVenBe you can also say in FR they can just nutpeddle like some of them do in Zoom...plus 6max plays more dynamically vs FR is more static, for me I play PLO (which is of course different) but as an example, full ring PLO is only flop nuts hope someone has 2nd nuts then stack off...I'd rather watch paint dry : )

Yep, that's also true in NL, but only among regs (and outside of the blinds). I don't mind watching paint dry against players who are working like me, the action - and the money - comes from playing against the fish! And if you are in a table full of regulars and w/out a single fish, you should close that table.

Originally posted by srna10

Wow a really long post, congratulations to whoever read this far!

Read the whole post, no biggie

I also play FR, since I started playing poker, currently playing NL5 and aiming NL10 shots...

Well, it also depends of what are your goals with poker of course. It seems you see zoom as a "level" to beat like in a video game, and that's of course fine, (I play Hearthstone btw and do it just for fun not for money). So if Zoom is fun or challenging to you, go ahead, what I meant is that if your primary goal is in making money with poker I think the regular cash tables are best suited for that.

I've read that the competition at pokerstars is the toughest, well, that makes sense and is actually good! It's like in business, if you don't have competition at all it can mean 2 things: 1) you are like the american startups who are really the first into a huge market (uber, airbnb for example) or 2) no one is doing the same you do because the market is too small or not profitable. But when you have competition, the fiercest the better, it means there is actually a lot of money to go for!

Couldn't agree more, playing with better than yourself makes you have to improve and makes you better.

Althought it comes with a contradiction with the "in order to win money don't play with players that are better than you" sentence. With the competence phrase what I meant is that when there are many competent people behind a market that means that the market is worth some money. But, specifically in poker, I don't think you should play with players that are better than you, I'd definitely close a table, even in NL5, where there are no fishes...

---- ---- ----

Week 5 of the Bankroll Challenge - NL5, NL10, NL16, NL25 FR (first, and hopefully last, losing week of the year)

Considerations for the next week:

1. I won't play any NL25 this week. I need the money like a job, and I can make it pretty comfortable in NL5, 10 and 16... Not gonna risk for now considering the awful last week, but I think I have what it takes to beat the level, I'll try it again soon.
2. I won't look at results until next sunday. Even though I never look at results while playing, I do at the end of sessions/days and it affects me to see my winnings going backwards. Definitely some - or a lot - of the losses last week were due to tilt, and looking at results plays a big role on tilting. My bankroll and my edge are good enough to be confident I'm winning, so I don't think I have to look at the graphs anymore to identify how good/bad I'm playing.
3. I'll try to play the 3,3k/hands day mark, but I won't force it. Definitely won't play more than 10 tables anymore, and won't play more than 2-hour sessions.

I think that's all, now I see it as very difficult to have a 1k USD/month (w/out rakeback), but I still don't discard it. My goals for October weren't monetary anyway, I would be happy if I earned a little more $ than in September, though!

Hello Volrath,

I completely agree with your theory on zoom, I don't play them either for that reason's you said, however, about your 2nd theory, i used to play 9 handed tables, but after playing 6 max, you become an action junkie :f_biggrin:, now i find 9 man rather boring, the reason i play them is because i enjoy them, there really fun and makes poker more entertaining then ever, they also make you a better player, because you have to deal with all kinds of weird plays you don't see that much in 9 man, as for fish, i believe there are more fish at 6max, and with the experience and correct strategy's i think 6 max is just as profitable, if not more as 9 man.

Hi Volrath89!

I just switched from zoom to regular tables (6-max), so I will see if you are right!

Originally posted by Alleen86
Hi Volrath89!

I just switched from zoom to regular tables (6-max), so I will see if you are right!
We'll see!

Originally posted by FrozenElf
Hello Volrath,

I completely agree with your theory on zoom, I don't play them either for that reason's you said, however, about your 2nd theory, i used to play 9 handed tables, but after playing 6 max, you become an action junkie :f_biggrin:, now i find 9 man rather boring, the reason i play them is because i enjoy them, there really fun and makes poker more entertaining then ever, they also make you a better player, because you have to deal with all kinds of weird plays you don't see that much in 9 man, as for fish, i believe there are more fish at 6max, and with the experience and correct strategy's i think 6 max is just as profitable, if not more as 9 man.

Not sure if becoming an action junkie is good or bad

--- --- ---
Week 6 of the bankroll challenge - NL5, NL10 FR

Hands: 16834
Profit: +$120.40
Starting BR: $400
Last Week's BR: $1080.22
Current BR: $1200.62
GOAL: $4,000.00

It was ok to not see at results during the week. But I played too few hands Definitely need to improve volume next week! I will resume playing NL16 again, and if everything goes well, NL25 again in the last week of October!

I'm getting already a little tired of poker though (again). I'm not sure what to do, but I'm probably gonna play just about 40k hands on November (half time)... That might actually be better for my bb/100 (when I play too much I get into autopilot more often.. I guess a normal side effect of volume)

Sweet results for one week on such low stakes. You can already make a living with that in some countries

I have btw thought about what you guys said regarding the reg tables and believe there is a lot of truth to be found in this - and I have heard this a lot already by now. Since in the greatest down swing of my very young career (32 stacks together on 2 sites, ok, one has to admit many bad beats, but still wtf?!?!), I consider to make it as easy as possible now since it seems that just the bad beats alone might only be 12-15 stacks down.

Started as a full ring player last year, but then was lured into Short handed. I do not know if it makes such a difference to play SH or FH, since I think there are a lot of recreational players in SH.

However, two things: in SH we start with larger losses by default, just because we pay more blinds. On the other hand, the FR tables are a nitfest which can be pretty annoying at times - is there some good way to find some fish quickly without a programme like table ninja?

When looking for decent regtables in the lobby, it seems like every table with a fish is already infested with some nits and 6 regs waiting for the fish. A bit exaggerated, but this was mostly the point why I played zoom. Yet the swings there can be brutal and many smaller or larger mistakes I make might accumlate there faster.

So this is what I will do for the rest of the month: FR/SH regtables (depending on traffic) and just see if anything changes. Ranges can just be a bit tighter than SH, but should get away with a lot on Nl5.