Skip to forum
Notifications
Clear all

What would you raise?

3 Posts
2 Users
0 Reactions
836 Views

I almost missed an excellent question that came up during our coaching today.

Clawdel basically asked: "How should we change our range when players limp in front?" This is a very common scenario at micro-stakes so its important to answer. Lets consider one scenario:

I'm on the Button and two players limp in front of me. Which hands should I definitely raise against this action? also, Which hands should I limp?

$0.05/$0.1 Fixed-Limit Hold'em (7 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BU with ?x, ?x.
2 folds, MP3 calls, CO calls, Hero raises / Hero calls...

Basic Solution

Spoiler

When faced with a preflop decision we refer to our starting charts.

  • The Basic chart says to Raise [99+, KQo, KQs, ATo+, ATs+].
  • Calling or folding any of the above hands vs 2 limpers is a mistake.
  • The Basic chart also says to Limp [88-22, JTo, QTo+, KTo+, A9s-A2s, K9s, 98s, 87s].
  • Folding the above hands on the button vs 2 limpers is certainly a mistake.

Advanced Solution

Spoiler

"What should we raise:".

  • First we ask, is our hand in the Open Raising Chart for our position?
  • To decide, we would consult our charts and find that, had all players folded we would raise [22+, JTo+, QTo+, KTo+, ATo+, A2s+, K9s+, 98s and 87s].
  • Second, Is our estimated equity greater than average equity against the action in front of us?
  • To get average equity we divide 1 by the # of players. (1 divided by us and the 2 limpers). 1/3 is 33%.
  • To get estimated equity we need to "GUESS" our equity against the players that limped in. Its an excellent skill to get very good at this guessing, but we know we need more than 33% equity.
  • At 33% Average Equity and against two 40/5 players (vpip/pfr) we can raise for value with [44+, A2s+, K9s+, QTs+, JTs, ATo+, KTo+].

    "What should we Call?"

  • Here we ask "What is the Required Equity to call". at 3.2:1 immediate odds and 8:2 vs a raise it would seem like 20-25% is enough. But we still need to consider that the hand is not over. We may be investing on later streets. On the conservative side we can say hands with more than 30% equity are enough to call preflop vs two 40/5 limpers.
  • At 30% Required Equity and against two 40/5 players (vpip/pfr) we can call profitably call with [33-22, K4s-K8s, Q8s-Q9s, T9s, 76s, K9o].
  • NOTE: In both cases, as our opponents hand ranges change, our estimated equity changes for a given hand. As a result, the range of hands we can play for profit changes.

Reply
Quote
2 replies
firsttsunami
Joined: 23.01.2006

I would actually also raise 55 66 77 and 88 etc. You can even limp this hand. It's not terrible. But i'd raise KJo KTs A8o A5s+. But it depends on the limpers PFR. There are limpers who just raise with 1%. But when he has got 55 VPIP or something you are dominated sometimes but most of the times ahead so i would definitely openraise with a wider range. Blinds will come along most of the time but i've got an edge, position and the chance of dead money and initiative.

Limpingchart is too tight as well. After 2limpers i'd call any connector except really trashy hands like 63s but even 63s i'd call. Given 2 limpers you can overlimp any suited hand from the button.

It gets easy when you put in your opponents ranges in the equilator and make an accurate calculation but i'd say that 30% as the requirement for overlimping is way too tight. It does not occur frequently that SB or BB raises off the blinds. With 2 limpers and the blinds that will often just complete you get 1:4. So you need just 20% and the argument that hand isn't over yet is more an argument for going down with your equity as you have a good playability. Especially with suited connectors. Either you flop big or you just have lowpair or midpair with no kicker and you don't mind giving up that hand against action. With suited connectors and connectors like 78o you should count implied odds. Even when your hand slightly underperforms against the fishy ranges but most money you do postflop, not preflop.

And opening range just deviates in the way that small aces and small suited connectors become an overcall hand because with suited connectors you don't have the chance to catch the blinds and the same with A2o and you could be dominated, especially when they have a low PFR. But it's certainly ok to sometimes balance your range and openraise T9s 89s.

My limpingrange would be:


Board:
       Equity     Win     Tie
MP2    19.39%  18.09%   1.30% { QQ, 88, 44-22, A5s-A2s, K8s-K2s, Q9s-Q2s, J2s+, T8s-T2s, 92s+, 82s+, 72s+, 62s+, 52s+, 42s+, 32s, AJo-A2o, KTo-K6o, QTo-Q7o, J7o+, T6o+, 96o+, 86o+, 75o+, 65o, 54o }
MP3    22.87%  21.41%   1.46% { 88-44, ATs-A2s, KJs-K2s, Q3s+, J5s+, T6s+, 96s+, 86s+, 76s, AQo-A2o, K6o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+, 98o }
CO     20.64%  19.20%   1.43% { 77-33, A9s-A2s, K9s-K2s, Q9s-Q2s, J3s+, T5s+, 95s+, 85s+, 75s+, 65s, ATo-A2o, KJo-K4o, Q6o+, J7o+, T7o+, 98o, 87o }
BU     18.55%  17.39%   1.16% { zufällig }
SB     18.55%  17.40%   1.15% { zufällig }

You see it's very lose and i made this calculation against a 45% Guy with 40% limping and 5% raising and the other guy limps 54% and openraises 10%. So you have average equity and implied odds not through your hand alone but also through having position.


Reply
Quote

yep, the basic solution is very tight and is exactly how the Basic Preflop Article recommends we should play vs 2 limpers.

The advanced solution considers their limping ranges and raising includes 44+ against the perceived hand ranges I assigned.

Essentially both solutions are correct. It depends on the level of experience.


Reply
Quote