Ribbo's interesting hands thread.

On the first two the problem is that you aren't repping much. First hand you are repping pretty much KKxx. I think that is ok'ish spot to bluff if you have a read on his betsize. You need to get him to fold half of the time to make profit.

On the second hand you are repping some sort of backdoor fullhouse/trips, and there aren't a lot of those with that line. I think in here opponent will call you more often than in previous hand. And as you need to get him to fold almost 60% of times this is not a good bluff imo.

On third hand, facepalm for villain not to cbet A high flop. On river he reps JTxx, and he needs to be bluffing 1/3 of times if you make the call. Is he?

On the first one the problem is on your part. I think this is a completely standard way to play hands like junk aces.

Preflop no point 3 betting, flop heads up in position you have him crushed, raising here with aces just folds out all the hands you want to barrel again on the turn into you. Turn you fill up so again no point raising until the river, let him barrel off if he thinks he can make you fold (plus if he has trips or better money will go in on the river anyway).

His river bet sizing clearly shows his weakness now (he definitely jams a full house at this point) so I think I can rep AA pretty well actually.

On the second hand you are repping some sort of backdoor fullhouse/trips, and there aren't a lot of those with that line. I think in here opponent will call you more often than in previous hand. And as you need to get him to fold almost 60% of times this is not a good bluff imo.

On this hand villain is clearly folding 90%+ of the time. There is 0% chance villain has AT or A9 after that turn check (and definitely not a set). That river bet is done with pure air, unfortunately his air beats mine so I have to bluff raise here.

On third hand, facepalm for villain not to cbet A high flop. On river he reps JTxx, and he needs to be bluffing 1/3 of times if you make the call. Is he?

Villain is clearly unbalanced to me in his betting patterns. If he had JT I reckon he goes for a value bet around $30. His bigger bets are heavily polarized to nuts or nothing and after checking flop and turn, never does that with a hand that has the nuts on the river. It's clear to him I have nothing after checking flop turn and river so he can't bet big with JT and expect a call, likewise he is never betting an ace as he should expect me to fold worse and call with better.

For the record I deliberately picked these hands because they are honestly good to argue about.

Nice thread - thanks for doing it Ribbo. It would be good to hear what your reads were as they will clearly factor into a decision to bluff the river.

HAND 1

I assume you were thinking about bluffing right from the flop? Reads about his game seem critical here.
For me, I'm not calling the flop bet with just a gutshot and QQ with a view to bluff later in the hand. To have this plan I would like to have a bit more equity (or a specific read that he's barrelling wide and prepared to fold), even if it's just a backdoor flush draw, etc.
How he thinks YOU play the hand is also important (depending how much history you have with the guy) e.g. does he put flatting AAxx in your range when you flat pre and call flop and turn.
On the river, his bet size looks like weak and it looks like a good bluff spot to me. Do you think against a thinking opponent making your raise less than pot looks strong or weak?

HAND 2

I much prefer the bluff set-up here as you have so much more equity to do it with.
Here, I agree that you can't rep all that much on the river (do you raise for value with a weak 9xxx?) but he seems so weak by checking turn/donking river that you can probably get him to fold a huge amount.

HAND 3

Villan should defo bet this flop IMO. He plays it pretty strangely and on the river could have something like 89TJ. Given the line he's taken on the rest of the hand I wouldn't be so confident ruling out TJxx on the basis of his bet sizing.
Having said that I think a lot of villains are bluffing this river with their air 100% of the time given the action on the flop and turn so he's probably bluffing with worse than Axxx sufficiently often for this to be a call.

I like hand 1) over that bet sizing as well where it's almost always a weakish value hand, and I think you do rep AA pretty well but you might even value raise the nut flush here over that sizing, his most likely hand is a straight imo.

hand 2) I think it's pretty spewy tbh you really don't rep anything but then he has a weak hand almost always, thing is if he's made a super thin VB on the river I can see you getting looked up as your line doesn't make much sense, when you check the turn back you're repping a hand with enough showdown value to take to the river, so raises takes almost all that range out as you'd call or fold with most of it. I'd much prefer to bet the turn if you're going to do this but I also like chking the turn back because he'll very likely bet the turn when one of your cards hits and he'll be in the same spot where your line doesn't make much sense facing whats prolly a thin VB but we actually have it!

hand 3) seems kinda stnd, wtf is the guy doing? chk ch then vbet now, abso afwul I know this guy as well its a terrible line from him and deservedly got called imo.

I am of the same opinion of lilDave.

Hand 1 I think this is a great spot to bluff because our opponents range is very weak by the river, and he confirms this with his river bet sizing.

Hand 2 To me this doesn't look like a good bluffing spot. I get that our opponent doesn't rep anything at all, but if he is this weak he normally doesn't fold his weak holdings on the river. Im sure most people would be of the opinion that you don't rep anything on this board.

Hand 3 NH Sir.

Let's look at from the opponent's point of view. Assume we are the opposition, and we bet that amount with our whole range. What is our calling range? Like in hand 1, what is the worst hand we will call hero with? And same for hand 2?

Hand 1 our opponent can't call because we're repping AA perfectly. Hand 2 he can't call because he has nothing at all, it doesn't matter what his calling range is if he literally can never have more than a bluff.

Originally posted by Ribbo
Hand 2 he can't call because he has nothing at all, it doesn't matter what his calling range is if he literally can never have more than a bluff.

this isn't true he can have some random 9x's and some thin AK** VB's imo, he can also have T9. He MIGHT even be bluffing with a hand that has a TEN JJ in it and decide to hero you, I think saying he can never have anything to call you with is defo not right as you're repping less than him OTR so he could find a bunch of ridiculous hero calls on you here. I think you should just bet the turn here.

So today I played some $50 Full ring while waiting for a friend to visit...
This hand came up, that I found interesting in the point of view of balance (my bets were really throwing people off their reads as I would bet the same with nuts as air.

Did I play this hand well, specifically should I 3 bet the flop super deep like this or let villain barrel off again on the turn?
What should be my bet sizing on the turn after villain checks?
I am pretty sure the river shove is the correct play here, but would anyone raise less?

PokerStars - Omaha Cash Games - $0.25/0.50 Blinds - 7 Players
Hand Converter from Pokerhand.org

nutsgirl888 (CO): $95.32
Ribs (BTN): $169.30
blade5858 (SB): $117.55
ELKASY23 (BB): $48.42
Welzron (UTG): $30.89
happycash (UTG+1): $204.29
PlzGetEven (MP1): $125.11

Pre-flop: Dealt to Ribs 4♥ 7♠ 9♠ 5♥
(2 folds), PlzGetEven calls $.50, nutsgirl888 raises to $1.50, Ribs calls $1.50, (2 folds), PlzGetEven calls $1

Flop: ($5.25) 7♥ 5♦ 5♣ (3 Players)
PlzGetEven checks, nutsgirl888 checks, Ribs bets $2.50, PlzGetEven raises to $6, (1 folds), Ribs calls $3.50

Turn: ($17.25) 2♦ (2 Players)
PlzGetEven checks, Ribs bets $6, PlzGetEven calls $6

River: ($29.25) 7♦ (2 Players)
PlzGetEven bets $18, Ribs raises to $81.93, (1 folds), Ribs returns $63.93
Ribs Mucks
Ribs wins $62.75

I have no idea what that guy has, literally no idea lol

I assummmme when he bets the river he has a 7? so i would play the same and jam cos if he c/c the turn with a 7 he almost defo isn't folding now!

Except he did lol so what do I know!

I think pre-flop is really interesting actually, vs JUST a single open I think it's a slam dunk mandatory 3bet 9handed, but once there is a caller I'm not sure what's best, I can't decide if 3betting is the best or the worst of the three options.

I'm curious to know how you would play the river on the 75527 board if he checked it?

How much would you bet, and why? 1/3 pot? 1/2 pot? full pot ? ( )

what sort of range you expecting? hands full of AAxx and KKxx and trip 5's?

I am always smashing that river irrespective of whether villain donks into me or not. He could well have backdoored into a flush and gone into check/call mode, or indeed he may also make a hero call with a 7.

I can't think of any reason not to jam the river. If villain has nothing he folds no matter what you bet, so the only outcome of betting less than full pot, is to win less against hands that are calling.

Someone reminded me of this hand today, which is the sickest hand I ever played (in that my opponent had a strong draw, but I had him completely crushed in every department). Check it out from 2007!

http://www.pokerhand.org/?1040901

The hand itself has over 1400 views so obviously a few other people liked it as well

Notice that even 5 years ago i was trying to play balanced, haha (half pot the flop, jam turn ftw!)

Here is an interesting hand from playing some Zoom Poker today on Stars. It's an example of milking the opponent and remaining balanced with bet sizing.

PokerStars - Omaha Cash Games - $0.25/0.50 Blinds - 6 Players

T. the Greek (UTG): $23.25
weisserhai1 (SB): $18.48
eldzi (BB): $25.77
juicemm (UTG+1): $55.82
Pippa83 (MP1): $142.60
Ribs (MP2): $83.19

Pre-flop: Dealt to Ribs 6♦ 4♠ 3♥ 7♠
(2 folds), Ribs raises to $1.50, (1 folds), weisserhai1 calls $1.25, (1 folds)

Flop: ($3.50) J♠ 5♣ 2♦ (2 Players)
weisserhai1 checks, Ribs bets $1.50, weisserhai1 calls $1.50

Turn: ($6.50) 6♠ (2 Players)
weisserhai1 checks, Ribs bets $3, weisserhai1 calls $3

River: ($12.50) 6♥ (2 Players)
weisserhai1 bets $11.94, Ribs raises to $23.88, weisserhai1 calls $.54 and is all-in, Ribs returns $11.40
Ribs Showed 6♦ 4♠ 3♥ 7♠
weisserhai1 Showed Q 8 A J
Ribs wins $35.77 with a straight, Deuce to Six

So go for a steal preflop which doesn't work, however I hit about a strong as possible flop for my hand, with a huge wrap on a rainbow board. I don't want to scare the other guy off and I really don't care what he has since I have great equity here no matter what. Make the standard cbet of just a little less than half pot.

I spike the nuts on the turn, villain clearly doesn't have a set on the flop or he would checkraise so at this point I am really not scared of anything. Again bet a little less than half pot, keep the opponent interested with his hand that may well be drawing dead against me (if he has somthing like KK or Jxxx). If a spade hits I am probably stacking off if villain pots it into me which sucks but not sure you can fear the flush all the time.

On the river it's a super easy snap call/shove for the reasons already given. Villain never has a set on the flop, so while it is possible he has 56xx or something like 664x there is going to be a lot of air in his range as well.

Some players I see are hideously unbalanced on the turn here. They would OMGPOT this turn card since they hit the nuts and makes it extremely easy for you to play against, especially when all you have is a jack and you know it's no good.

If flop had flush draw, and turn would have been non-flushy card, would you have potted the turn?

A flush draw I had or I didn't have?

Also here is a hand from today, another example of the importance of being balanced.

I flop the nuts + redraw and pick up an ever bigger draw on the turn. By doing a half pot bet sizing with such a big hand, my opponent who has the nuts with no redraw thinks I am weak and raises and he ends up stacking off.

If I had potted flop and turn I think he can possibly get off the river bet and probably also doesn't raise the turn.

http://www.pokerhand.org/?6352055

A flush draw you don't have. In a case you need to protect your hand. With half a pot you almost give straight odds for someone with flushdraw + something little to call.

Originally posted by Kyyberi
A flush draw you don't have. In a case you need to protect your hand. With half a pot you almost give straight odds for someone with flushdraw + something little to call.

There is nothing wrong with pricing someone in when they have a flush draw. Namely because some of the time I will have a better flush draw. Just because you have "odds to call", does not necessarily mean you should.

If people want to start calling with their jack high flush draws when I bet, then that's super profitable for me in the long term. I would not want to bet full pot in those situations as I would have to fold if I get raised (as I might be getting freerolled).

When in position, I am happy building the pot up and seeing what develops on the next street. So long as I can get stacks in by the river it's all good.

PokerStars - Omaha Cash Games - $0.25/0.50 Blinds - 5 Players
Hand Converter from Pokerhand.org

dickkemp (BB): $50
Ribs (UTG): $163.73
lozzz (CO): $50.75
Gideon (BTN): $47.63
M3t4l.M4n (SB): $52.07

Pre-flop: Dealt to Ribs 6♥ 5♥ 7♦ 4♣
Ribs raises to $1.50, (1 folds), Gideon calls $1.50, M3t4l.M4n calls $1.25, (1 folds)

Flop: ($5) 8 4 3 (3 Players)
M3t4l.M4n checks, Ribs bets $2.50, Gideon calls $2.50, (1 folds)

Turn: ($10) 5 (2 Players)
Ribs bets $4.50, Gideon raises to $23.05, Ribs raises to $78.70, Gideon calls $20.58 and is all-in, Ribs returns $35.07

River: ($97.26) Q (2 Players)

Ribs Showed 6♥ 5♥ 7♦ 4♣
Gideon Showed 3♥ J♠ 2♥ A♠
Ribs wins $94.76 with a straight, Four to Eight

AFTER THE HAND:
Gideon: lucky moron

Yep that's right, I was the lucky moron apparantely...