50E+R - Jj

if u r planing to call river bet imo is best to raise turn as played ~4-4,5k

Hi all,

I'm calling the river here, it's not such a bad board runout and I don't think we're beat often enough. I don't necessarily agree with you that this sizing looks value-y: it could easily be a cheap bluff.

Yes maybe I should call here, because this hands is in the top of my range on the river in this spot.
Would you say what hands do you think, that the opponent can bluff on the river?

Now, when I am looking the hand.
My range on the river is:
JJ-TT, 88, 66-55, AhQh, KhQh, AhJh, KhJh, AhTh, AhQd, AhQs, AhQc, AhJd, AhJs, AhJc (41 combos)
What do you think about the turn, if I have KhQh/KhJh?
I think I can call turn with 55,66,88, because the bet on the turn looks weak and I don`t think he will bet so with over pairs or sets. What do you think?

If I don`t know how often the villain bluff, I should defend 72% of my range - 30 combos.

JJ-TT, 88, 66, AhQh, KhQh, AhJh, KhJh, AhTh

Originally posted by PaPi92
Yes maybe I should call here, because this hands is in the top of my range on the river in this spot.
Would you say what hands do you think, that the opponent can bluff on the river?

Now, when I am looking the hand.
My range on the river is:
JJ-TT, 88, 66-55, AhQh, KhQh, AhJh, KhJh, AhTh, AhQd, AhQs, AhQc, AhJd, AhJs, AhJc (41 combos)
What do you think about the turn, if I have KhQh/KhJh?
I think I can call turn with 55,66,88, because the bet on the turn looks weak and I don`t think he will bet so with over pairs or sets. What do you think?

If I don`t know how often the villain bluff, I should defend 72% of my range - 30 combos.

JJ-TT, 88, 66, AhQh, KhQh, AhJh, KhJh, AhTh

imo your ranges r way off

AhQh, KhQh, AhJh, KhJh, AhTh, (also imo u should have JhTh,JhQh, QhTh,Ah2h-Ah5h in your range too)=> u should value raise this hands on turn or river, specialy u should raise not nut flushes + some bluff raises with blockers KhX/AhX, (33/44/99 u should raise/get in on flop)

55/66/88 is clear fold #foldonturn

so imo hero should have only 77/TT+/AhXh as played on river (+ AhQx/AhKx if u just call this hand pre/on flop/turn to start with)

so when all that said as i said i prefer to raise/fold turn vs call turn/hero calling river

note: fold or 3 bet AJ preflop imo as a good start

I can call AJo pre flop in position, because his range is very wide. But it is close, it can be in my 3bet bluffing range.
I fold A5-A2s pre flop.
I raise turn with QhJh, QhTh, JhTh, Th9h, 9h8h and sometimes with KhXh.
Vs this sizing on the turn, I think a big part of his range is Ahx and Khx, I think he will bet bigger on turn with over pairs or sets, but he can bet 9x so. So that 55,66,88 are fold, my mistake.
So finally, my range is:

JJ-TT, AhQh, KhQh, AhJh, KhJh, AhTh, AhQd, AhQs, AhQc, AhJd, AhJs, AhJc (23 combos)
I should defend 17 combos.
So I should defend JJ-TT, AhQh, KhQh, AhJh, KhJh, AhTh.
I think you are agreed yet.

Originally posted by PaPi92
I can call AJo pre flop in position, because his range is very wide. But it is close, it can be in my 3bet bluffing range.
I fold A5-A2s pre flop.
I raise turn with QhJh, QhTh, JhTh, Th9h, 9h8h and sometimes with KhXh.
Vs this sizing on the turn, I think a big part of his range is Ahx and Khx, I think he will bet bigger on turn with over pairs or sets, but he can bet 9x so. So that 55,66,88 are fold, my mistake.
So finally, my range is:

JJ-TT, AhQh, KhQh, AhJh, KhJh, AhTh, AhQd, AhQs, AhQc, AhJd, AhJs, AhJc (23 combos)
I should defend 17 combos.
So I should defend JJ-TT, AhQh, KhQh, AhJh, KhJh, AhTh.
I think you are agreed yet.

u are doing it all wrong
this => AhQh, KhQh, AhJh, KhJh, AhTh = is u r value range = raise for value
Ahx is ur bluffing range => raise for bluff
TT-QQ (imo if u flat JJ ther u should also flat QQ+ some % of time) r your bluff catcher/merge range => sometimes u raise for bluff with them (when u have for blokers), sometimes u call for bluff catcher, and sometimes u fold
so your bluff catcher range is 9xs,TT+

and imo is mistake not to have A2s-A5s in your calling range preflop that deep also u should have hands like 56s and stuff

OMG dude you need some work !!!

1st you should have 3bet the pockets jacks pre flop.

and looking at the way you played it, I would have 3bet turn bet, to rep flush , if he calls your 3bet turn...i would check fold river.......but i think you could hve picked up the pot pre or at turn imo...

Why do you think 3bet pre flop is better? Say your arguments.

Why do you think raise turn is good?
He has a lot of hands which 2nd barrel and I am infront of his range. I don`t think he will cal me with worst, for example Ahx.
My mistake is on the river.

I will se the post of TheRebuz tommorow.

IMO you are flatting way to much esp in a 6 max game..

if u 3bet him pre flop and he calls u can narrow his range down a bit.

also u may have picked up pot pre flop.

as he was the aggressor, he is making a standard c/bet flop.

imo you should have 3bet him flop and took pot down there if he calls your 3bet , then you have to revalue situation..

but if u 3bet him pre he calls, and then u 3bet his donk flop bet i think u would have took the pot down right there and then, if he does calls you he has over PP or flush draw..

( by flatting his bets your not really repping any hands and you are also giving him excuse to maybe hit draw and fire more barrows at you..

Originally posted by TheRebuz

Originally posted by PaPi92
I can call AJo pre flop in position, because his range is very wide. But it is close, it can be in my 3bet bluffing range.
I fold A5-A2s pre flop.
I raise turn with QhJh, QhTh, JhTh, Th9h, 9h8h and sometimes with KhXh.
Vs this sizing on the turn, I think a big part of his range is Ahx and Khx, I think he will bet bigger on turn with over pairs or sets, but he can bet 9x so. So that 55,66,88 are fold, my mistake.
So finally, my range is:

JJ-TT, AhQh, KhQh, AhJh, KhJh, AhTh, AhQd, AhQs, AhQc, AhJd, AhJs, AhJc (23 combos)
I should defend 17 combos.
So I should defend JJ-TT, AhQh, KhQh, AhJh, KhJh, AhTh.
I think you are agreed yet.

u are doing it all wrong
this => AhQh, KhQh, AhJh, KhJh, AhTh = is u r value range = raise for value
Ahx is ur bluffing range => raise for bluff
TT-QQ (imo if u flat JJ ther u should also flat QQ+ some % of time) r your bluff catcher/merge range => sometimes u raise for bluff with them (when u have for blokers), sometimes u call for bluff catcher, and sometimes u fold
so your bluff catcher range is 9xs,TT+

and imo is mistake not to have A2s-A5s in your calling range preflop that deep also u should have hands like 56s and stuff

Certainly I raise for value flush on the river. When I say defend this hands, doesn`t mean, that I call with all of them.
I am not sure, how often he folds AA or Kx, if I raise on the river. So I don`t have bluff range on the river. Maybe I see this player for last time, so this isn`t a big problem.

Why do you think is mistake to don`t have A2s, 65s in my calling range pre flop?
I think this is good only if I play with player, which I will play very often in the future with. And this can make my calling range hard to define.
And my post flop play isn`t in very high level yet, so with this hands I can only land in trouble.

Hi all,

I'd prefer 3betting A2s-A5s preflop. I like the JJ flatcall, I think it's a bit too thin 3bet/getting it in preflop for 58bb with your most likely image, especially vs UTG raise. He's not gonna flat the 3bet very often either so it ends up being just a waste of JJ.

I'd be calling the turn with my full range. It's hard to raise the turn with bluffs I think, so I prefer calling and letting him barrel. This also protects the bluffcatching parts of my range if we're getting to talking about our overall strategy for this situation.

River I think tournament players in general valuebet too wide (Hi guys, I'm talking about you), in spots where they can't really have too many bluffs. I wouldn't be surprised to see opponent turn up with a hand as weak as A9 or TT here on the river, even though that's absurd and not really getting called by much worse. So I'm not folding.

Raising the river could be OK if you think he never sizes a flush like this.

Now, when I am thinking about the turn, it`s better to call all of my range especially vs regular. Because, how you say, it`s very hard to have bluffs in my raising range on the turn.
But vs fish, I can raise only flush on turn and get called from a lot of flush draws and get in with over pairs and sets.

I think neither regs nor fish fold overpairs and sets on the turn vs a raise. However the question is what they do with 9x on the turn, and what they do with air on the river. I think regs can 3 barrel air on the river more, and I think fish do not fold 9x on the turn. That's why we raise flushes on the turn against fish.

Raising turn for cheap showdown,protection/value from from top draws/pairs

What we do if we call turn and villain bombs any river ?

Lots of calling.