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AJ bluff 3bet turn

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GingerKid
Joined: 05.08.2007

partypoker - $1 NL FAST (6 max) - Holdem - 6 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

BTN: 103.63 BB (VPIP: 23.91, PFR: 15.17, 3Bet Preflop: 2.93, Hands: 6,544)
SB: 54.75 BB (VPIP: 20.62, PFR: 17.27, 3Bet Preflop: 5.37, Hands: 394)
BB: 118.83 BB (VPIP: 18.03, PFR: 14.75, 3Bet Preflop: 6.33, Hands: 190)
Hero (UTG): 101.5 BB
MP: 102.7 BB (VPIP: 25.90, PFR: 18.34, 3Bet Preflop: 7.35, Hands: 539)
CO: 100 BB (VPIP: 28.54, PFR: 23.75, 3Bet Preflop: 10.98, Hands: 2,024)

SB posts SB 0.5 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has A♦ J♣

Hero raises to 3 BB, MP calls 3 BB, fold, fold, fold, fold

Flop: (7.5 BB, 2 players) 4♠ Q♦ T♦
Hero bets 5.34 BB, MP calls 5.34 BB

Turn: (18.18 BB, 2 players) 7♦
Hero bets 12.96 BB, MP raises to 26.92 BB, Hero raises to 93.16 BB and is all-in, fold

Spoiler

Hero wins 135.26 BB

fold flop 50%, turn 20%, raise flop 8%, turn 4/20 times.

Is it ok to shove? I guess fold is too weak, if I call gutshot is not meaning much as well Ax, but I guess I could have implied odds if I hit?


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4 replies
double2
Joined: 04.11.2008

Hi

I love the shove, and the main reason is that villain reps super super thin once we hold Ad. He reps KdJd and not much else... And that's not even a good raise IMO.


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ETBrooD
Joined: 16.09.2009

I think we're pretty much just protecting our EQ with the shove, most bluffs are behind anyway. So there is a strong argument for just calling because of our implied odds.
So I think shoving just makes life easy for us, but it seems fine. Calling could be more +EV, but only if we play the river perfectly.

Why is KdJd not a good raise?


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GingerKid
Joined: 05.08.2007

I think we're pretty much just protecting our EQ with the shove, most bluffs are behind anyway

It is if you assume he doesnt turn SD hands into bluff. But on this runout he can.
Also if he bluffs only hands like gutshots, he will bluff river with some frequency. Off course, you can also call river bet, it is one of best bluff catchers, assuming he doesnt turn hands into bluff. But still, imo shove on turn is best because as coatch said, he doesnt rep much besides KdJd which might not even raise turn, which means we win very often with shove on turn. I realized that on flop, and my plan on flop was to play for stacks no matter what he does. (we talked recently about why very narrow ranges are not good like cold call 3bet with JJ, QQ, AK, here is one example).

Why is KdJd not a good raise?

Because regs usually bet turn when flush comes with polarized range. Two cases:

1) UTG bluffs, usually with fd, sometimes less. In that case his equity with AdXo is just 13.6%. No nead to protect vs that, rather let him bluff (often overbet) river with his nut blocker. MP is IP, so if UTG checks he can bet so he doesnt loose value.
If he has bluff worse than AdXo, then he is drawing dead, obviously best EV is to let him bluff again.

2) He value bets. This is mostly flush. Since MP holds in that case KdJd and blocks most combos of flush, then the most combos of flush in UTG range will be AdXd. So there is not much value in raise even on turn! UTG might even fold a hand like 8d9d which is the only worse hand in range (maybe he even doesnt play it from UTG).
If UTG would value bet/call with weaker than flush then we would have clear value raise and stack off with KdJd, but I think most of regs check those hands.

Agree?


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double2
Joined: 04.11.2008

Yes, I think you are spot on. KdJd is simply not doing well against UTG continuing range, since he holds very few worse flush combos.


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