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Turn barrel or check?

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PacnyTuH0
Joined: 02.05.2007

Villain is a 22/17 reg over 250 hands. Fold to cbet 63%

What is my best play on the turn - bet or check/raise?
I'm not sure check-calling is good...

$0.05/$0.10 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 5 Players

BB: $11.88 (118.8 bb)
MP: $7.57 (75.7 bb)
Hero (CO): $10.57 (105.7 bb)
BTN: $10 (100 bb)
SB: $10.20 (102 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with 5♣ A♣
MP folds, Hero raises to $0.30, BTN calls $0.30, 2 folds

Flop: ($0.75) K♠ 6♣ 4♠ (2 players)
Hero bets $0.50, BTN calls $0.50

Turn: ($1.75) J♣ (2 players)
Hero ???


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21 replies
Dadramel
Joined: 10.08.2014

Check on J is better in order to cotrol the pot. J opens draws and often improves villain. If blank occured I would have bet again to make use of K as the scary card


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Bet flop, x/cal turn. We do not have equity to bet again.


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VaskataBuci
Joined: 08.08.2011

Bet turn, our equity improves, we could make hands like 88-TT or FDs to fold.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Why do we want FDs to fold? Or you mean spade FDs?


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Ales851
Joined: 16.07.2012

I think bet T is OK to fold out his PPs, better Ahighs and other random floats.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

LOL, even vs a wide range we do not have enough equity to bet T:

MP2 32.75% Ac5c
MP3 67.25% 66, 44, KTs+, 87s, 76s, 65s, AsQs, AsJs, QsJs, AsTs, QsTs, JsTs, As9s, Js9s, Ts9s, Ts8s, 9s8s, KQo


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

If I put all middle pairs it gets even worse:
MP2 29.80% Ac5c
MP3 70.20% JJ-66, 44, KTs+, 87s, 76s, 65s, AsQs, AsJs, QsJs, AsTs, QsTs, JsTs, As9s, Js9s, Ts9s, Ts8s, 9s8s, KQo

And I am not sure that we will be that happy to see an A on the river...


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VaskataBuci
Joined: 08.08.2011

He should fold most of his PPs and some of the FD combos which are big portion of his range. That's why I think he is folding enough plus the equity we have in the hand to be our cbet good.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

OK. What is our plan vs a raise on turn?


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Dadramel
Joined: 10.08.2014

There is no point betting OTT. So what we get improved if thats only FD, we're not supposed to play FD aggressively on that particular board when almost everything calls us. We have 25% chance of getting club OTR. There's no Feq either.

Originally posted by VaskataBuci
He should fold most of his PPs and some of the FD combos which are big portion of his range. That's why I think he is folding enough plus the equity we have in the hand to be our cbet good.

We dont want him to fold FD, do we? If I continue betting OTT I would like to see FD calling.


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VaskataBuci
Joined: 08.08.2011

I do not agree we have 0 fold equity. Our target is mid PPs but I expect also some FDs to fold anyway.


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mattyvx
Joined: 15.04.2015

what about if the flop was a jack and the turn was a king - big bet turn & river for the tripple?


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Are you ready for 3 barrel bluff?


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mattyvx
Joined: 15.04.2015

locked and loaded


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Ales851
Joined: 16.07.2012

Originally posted by mattyvx
what about if the flop was a jack and the turn was a king - big bet turn & river for the tripple?

I don´t think there is a big difference in this situation - we probably mainly targeting PPs for which T card is a scare card in both cases.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

So we should use the scary factor and bet.


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If you bet the turn it'd be considered a bluff, not a value bet. 20% pot equity on a bluff on the turn is definitely doable if you're folding out enough of his range, although we probably have slightly less than 20% equity which we can realize without the Kc or 4c .

The J doesn't hit our opponent's range super hard unless he's floating the flop with a lot of backdoor broadways, which he probably isn't. A couple of his flush draws now have second pair but that's mostly it. One more thing to note is that although JJ is considered good to cold call in this spot, most regulars are probably 3-betting it BU vs CO.

Firstly if you're going to bet the flop with this hand, you really want to avoid check/folding the turn on this card. Even vs fit or fold type, we'd likely have the implied odds to carry on with the hand.

I also reckon that we shouldn't have much of a check/raising range on this turn, except vs opponents with high bet vs missed double barrel. The reason is that all of our legitimate value hands on the turn are too vulnerable to be attempting a check/raise. Therefore our turn check/raising range would be very bluffy unless we're willing to risk a check-back with some strong hands on the turn.

The problem with betting the turn, however, is that we don't want to just fold to a raise. If the sizing is huge then folding is definitely an option. The issue is that we don't want to be bet/folding a lot of our strong nut flush draws, especially vs an opponent who has a strong made hand which we can stack with 7 clean outs. However, it's not like we have a ton of weaker draws in our betting range either, so bet/folding this draw becomes an option, but I'm not entirely convinced about it.

In game I would be bet/calling the turn vs most opponents. I'd also be barreling most rivers if I get flat called, but I'd size it for thin value when I've missed, probably around 40% or less. Vs aggressive opponents who hand-read, I would be check/calling some portion of the time. So while check/folding & check/raising are not an option for me, I would probably only be check/calling to exploit good players.

What would you guys do if 2c appeared on the turn?


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I also believe this hand has seen enough action to deserve a highlight. We want to know what we should do in this spot.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Agree on that. This is a spot that raises doubt.


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