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Turning 99 in to a bluff OTR

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inceptioner
Joined: 23.05.2012

Hi, in game I decided to bluff here. What are your thoughts about raising the river here? Looking at the hand now, it feels weird to raise here. Do we have enough showdown value to call the river against an unknow? And if we decide to raise, what sizing should we use?

PokerStars - $0.05 NL (6 max) - Holdem - 4 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

Hero (BTN): 100 BB
SB: 194.8 BB (VPIP: 33.33, PFR: 33.33, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 14)
BB: 100 BB
CO: 101.4 BB (VPIP: 30.00, PFR: 30.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 20)

SB posts SB 0.4 BB, BB posts BB 1 BB

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.4 BB) Hero has 9♣ 9♠

CO raises to 3 BB, Hero calls 3 BB, fold, fold

Flop: (7.4 BB, 2 players) 5♣ 3♥ 8♥
CO bets 5 BB, Hero calls 5 BB

Turn: (17.4 BB, 2 players) T♠
CO bets 10.8 BB, Hero calls 10.8 BB

River: (39 BB, 2 players) Q♥
CO bets 11.2 BB, Hero wants to bluff.


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10 replies
YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

Yeah, why not?

One reason not to is that people probably call bluffs executed with a raise much more than they should (because they face nice pot odds). The way to exploit that is to raise thinner for value, and bluff less. But that doesn't mean to stop bluffing all together. You can't hang around with that hand until the river only to hope that it goes check-check and he has AK.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Does the small river size help us in our decision?


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inceptioner
Joined: 23.05.2012

Originally posted by nitrol
Does the small river size help us in our decision?

Actually I'm pretty sure the small sizing induced me to do this. I somehow don't think he's ever valuebetting worse hands than mine is.


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VaskataBuci
Joined: 08.08.2011

Probably you will be reaching this river with something like that:
99,76s,KhQh,KhJh,QhJh,KhTh,QhTh,JhTh,Ah9h,Jh9h,Th9h,Ah8h,Th8h,9h8h,Ah7h,8h7h,Ah6h

So, if you raise the river with all your made flush combos you will have to add 99 as a bluff.


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inceptioner
Joined: 23.05.2012

Originally posted by VaskataBuci
So, if you raise the river with all your made flush combos you will have to add 99 as a bluff.

I'm not really sure if I need to balance myself that much in NL5, but good point :)

Okay guys, thanks for confirming this is not a total spew. Now let's talk about sizing on the river. I have no idea what our sizing should be here.

River: (39 BB, 2 players) Q♥
CO bets 11.2 BB, Hero raises to 39.8 BB, fold

Hero wins 58.8 BB

Should we raise smaller?


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YohanN7
Joined: 15.06.2009

The problem is this. The opponent is getting 3:1 on a call. That is all he will see (at most), thinking he should fold 25%, and no more. The real number is that you invest 40 to win 60, and need to succeed 40% of the time. I'll not say whether bigger or smaller is right (don't know), just that you may get more calls than you like because he sees the pot odds only, unless he is a rare micro-playing GTO expert.


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Ales851
Joined: 16.07.2012

Not super happy about this move on NL5. From view of balance can be OK still nobody cares about balancing river raise range on NL5 :f_biggrin: Time to time I try it vs these small sizings but I don´t have a feel that it would be big moneymaker without reads.


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Tomaloc
Joined: 17.01.2011

what i can say is that it will work nearly always against some people, and work nearly never against some others. :f_biggrin: i like the idea, but i probably end up folding tbh, and against the first type of player you could probably raise smaller because they are into making good folds


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

I totaly agree with Tomaloc. There are players which will make the fold vs that raise. And there are others that will call it with 3rd Pair.
On NL 5 I think balancing that range is useless as practically no-one will try to exploit us in this particular spot.


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VaskataBuci
Joined: 08.08.2011

Originally posted by inceptioner

Originally posted by VaskataBuci
So, if you raise the river with all your made flush combos you will have to add 99 as a bluff.

I'm not really sure if I need to balance myself that much in NL5, but good point :)

I was meaning in general. You are abs. right here.

As a size of the raise I would make it same.


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