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Mid pair+SD+FD ott.

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marsa08
Joined: 30.01.2014

$0.10/$0.20 No Limit Hold'em Cash, 4 Players

SB: $8 (40 bb)
BB: $21.21 (106.1 bb)
Hero (CO): $25.13 (125.7 bb)
BTN: $51.85 (259.3 bb)

Preflop: Hero is CO with T 8
Hero raises to $0.60, 2 folds, BB calls $0.40

Flop: ($1.30) 7 8 9 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero bets $0.91, BB calls $0.91

Turn: ($3.12) 2 (2 players)
BB checks, Hero checks

River: ($3.12) 5 (2 players)
BB bets $2.18, Hero raises to $4.80

Villain is 35/18/AF1,3 over 24 hands.

Is it ok to x back turn or should I bet? He can still call me with draws and we have many outs vs TP/overpair. So I should bet this turn?

On the other hand by x;ing we get free river and we have sd value and we can call one bet on blank river or if we hit we can try to get some more value.

Reason for river raise sizing; I want him to still call with his straights.


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33 replies
nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

It is ok.


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Bet always straight flush draws. Just kidding..

Flop and turn are ok. I think JT wuold have raised flop or bet turn so only straight is 6x. Better flushes are still possible. You checking turn and raising river when flush completes looks strong. I would play this safe and call.


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Dadramel
Joined: 10.08.2014

Having 2nd pair and monster draw (sd+fd) i wouldn't hesitate to shoot another barrel. If the river hadn't come with another spade, Q or 6, you all of a sudden would've had a lost hand.


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It was ok. I would have raised a little bit bigger otr though


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

What worse hands are you targetting?


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

Was gonna ask the same. No worse hands will call a raise.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

The raise pretty much gives up our hand.


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

And villain still might be holding better hands and we only take a huge risk. Risk reward ratio is not good.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

Originally posted by la55i
And villain still might be holding better hands and we only take a huge risk. Risk reward ratio is not good.

Agree.


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Ok then just call the river. But this size are never bluff. On NL20 your opponents may notice this


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

What size we are talking about? There is no such size that would be never a bluff.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

OTR it is a normal 2/3 psb. It can be either for value or as a bluff.
You should see some showdowns and more.


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I am talking about hero's raise


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la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013

That can be used as a bluff too of course. IF we were going to raise here, what size would you use and why?


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

If not pushing, I will use the same as here. Or around that.


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marsa08
Joined: 30.01.2014

Originally posted by horvathr492
Ok then just call the river. But this size are never bluff. On NL20 your opponents may notice this

I don't need to worry about this vs a villain that I only have 24 hands history. And we can bluff with this sizing too.

Actually it will be better to bluff with this sizing if villain thinks that I'm never bluffing as it will be really cheap for me to bluff and villain will be folding a ton--> I'm printing money by 2x raising river scare cards...

You/Villain should not assume that I don't bluff with this sizing because of the reason I just stated.


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marsa08
Joined: 30.01.2014

One more thing;

It is true that when you raise/bet in a smaller size you will have fewer bluffs, but you will still have some bluffs. Your whole range has more value bets and some bluffs.

By raising/betting big our range is more polarized and we will have more bluffs(more bluffs than when betting small) but also more nut hands.

The reason for this is that when we bet bigger villain will be folding more often so we can have more bluffs. When we bet smaller villain will be calling wider so we can not have that many bluffs in our range BUT we still have a few of them.

But you should not be thinking that when some one bets small/raises small he is never bluffing. If you think this way your thought process is not correct. You are thinking that small bets= value and no bluffs and big bets are bluff heavy.


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nitrol
Joined: 24.07.2010

It is true that when you raise/bet in a smaller size you will have fewer bluffs, but you will still have some bluffs

Actually, when you bet/raise smaller size you should have more bluffs.


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marsa08
Joined: 30.01.2014

Originally posted by nitrol

It is true that when you raise/bet in a smaller size you will have fewer bluffs, but you will still have some bluffs

Actually, when you bet/raise smaller size you should have more bluffs.

No.
Maybe you got confused. I'm talking about river play only here as on the OP hand I raised on the river.

This is not valid for other street plays.


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