c-bet strategy SB vs BB.

I think Axx boards we should attack more often then you suppose.

Axx boards are floated the most, the least fold equity, according to one of the video's of weasel, dont know which... So we have to attack them a little bit less and bet with a stronger range.

Give a link to the video, please.

https://www.pokerstrategy.com/video/38800/ 16:00 There is talked about the succes rate of c-bets on ace high flops.
https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?postid=2111153#post2111153

I got it wrong, thank you, just the opposite. :). Never the less. Still remains, the average c-betting ip/oop is 60 %, for this kinda board it should be a little bit more, lets say 55% for being oop, is that a good guess?

I think you definitely should cbet this flop. As played only one stab OTT doesn't accomplish anything. When you decide to skip cbet OTF and stab OTT you should continue betting OTR too. Now when you check flop, bet turn and check river again it is pretty clear to villain that you have nothing and he can bet with his whole range and you have to fold very very often.

Lets get the basics good. Instead of what I should do with a particular holding. My first assumption is to cbet with 50% on this board. This is not high enough. So should or be 55, 60 or even 70% on this board.

I know in GTO there are fancy % how often we should do something but this is micros and we are playing against an unknown player so I believe those are irrelevant. Of course cbetting this flop 100% will be exploitable in theory but in reality no one will exploit you if you do so. And if they start exploiting you, you will notice it very soon and adjust. I think you can cbet here 100%. People will fold too much to cbets.

Originally posted by advancedTN1984
Lets get the basics good. Instead of what I should do with a particular holding. My first assumption is to cbet with 50% on this board. This is not high enough. So should or be 55, 60 or even 70% on this board.

It should be close to 100!!!

1. So you bet every ace high flop with 100% range? Ok, it is possible, it will be certain autoprofit but is it the best line to take? And why is it the best line in your opinion?

2. The hands that you check will be automatic check folds, so your checking range is very weak? Is that a correct conclusion? So autoprofit for villain and your betting range is open to floats?

3. You create huge pots with marginally holdings on the flop, turn, river and then on the river you have a problem with your 5 high flush(for this hand example) when shoved all in being oop and the problems that you have created by c-betting all boards with just marginal holdings.

4. You dont give rope to your opponents to bluff with air hands?

5. There will be more reasons why it is bad to go for just an autoprofit line.

6. I am not interested in autoprofit lines on NL10..... Yes, I like to develop a good strategy.

How can my check line be weak if I do not have check range there?

Originally posted by nitrol

It should be close to 100!!!

Close to 100 is not exactly 100.....

1. A-high flop hits our range here hard and villain will fold too much. If he doesn't fold, we will have that A quite some time and we will get value. We are vulnerable to exploits but it would mean that our villain would be capable of thinking that on this kind of flop we are cbetting way too much. This is not that likely at NL10 vs unknown. We can choose who we do this against so no need to use this line every time vs thinking player. If you feel like villain has started floating you a lot, you can easily adjust so no problem.

2. We don't have check folds on this board vs unknown. If it is Q high or J high board it would be different. Cbetting this 100% doesn't mean that your overall cbet will be 100%. So not really autoprofit for villain. #1 things apply.

3. We are not cbetting all boards. We are cbetting boards like this because those hit our range and villain will fold too much. We don't have to see river always.

4. If we have a strong holding here it would be better to just bet and extract that value. When we have a hand like this we don't want villain to bluff with air because we have air too.

5. What are those?

6. Sounds like you are not interested in making money It is good to develop a good strategy but the strategy for NL10 and NL5000 are quite different. At the micros we can play simple game and take this autoprofit. If we start doing that fancy stuff and balancing even if it is not necessary, we will just lose value. Most of the guys at the micros are not that good and are not capable of exploiting you. So my tip is: exploit them, adjust when necessary. Checking this flop sometimes will be absolutely necessary at NL5000 but doing so at NL10 is not taking the max value, in my opinion.

Thank you for your extensive reply.

1. Yes it hits our range hard. But I dont think we can get 3 streets of value by betting our A2s for example. Even on the microlimit NL10. And then I think check calling A2s is having a higher expected value then relentlessly "value"betting.

3. True, not c=betting all boards. But our c-bet % will be too high if we start betting allmost every A-High board. The A-High board contributes for around 20%. So C-betting close to 100% will affect it dramaticly(I Imagine).

4. If we check, we don't plan to give up on the hand. There is maybe an opportunity to bluff on river and extract more value as exploit. It's not that we are bluffed off our marginal hand.

Let's forget about 5. I have to look them up, rewatch a video because I dont have the arguments by hand.

About 6. Well let's first make things clear, I am not looking to win big on nl10, lol. For discussion I play some NL10 on pokerstars, because of lack of bankroll there, and dont have the intention to build knowledge on playing with hud.... That doesnt mean I dont play nl25/nl50, but in a hudless environment I can't track and discuss hands, makes the context a little bit different ^^, but can look up an example in the hudless environment on nl50, if that makes the context and play better. So I like to make money and like to improve my game.

Also I like to apply theory that as is stated in weasels academy, it is not that it is just my thoughts.

If we had A2 here I would usually bet flop and usually turn and then decide OTR (probably check folding). I don't think we have 3 streets and we don't have to. If we check with A2s and use it as delayed cbet, I don't know if it will give us any more value. Very often villain won't improve and will fold anyway. I believe playing our hits straight forward at NL10 is a good idea and with this had on this board on these positions I think we get a lot of folds so cbetting would be a good idea. If we cbet in this case it doesn't mean we will go crazy with our hand. And of course our play depends on our villain, our cards and the board.

I like cbetting a lot but my cbet % is around 60 if I remember correctly.

I would rather bluff OTF and give up than let villain improve and then try to bluff OTR but that is just me.

This might be a bit different at NL50. I believe that skill level there is a bit higher and more villains are thinking and trying to exploit you.

Have you watched w34z3l's poker in practice series?

Originally posted by la55i
If we had A2 here I would usually bet flop and usually turn and then decide OTR (probably check folding).
Have you watched w34z3l's poker in practice series?

I think thats a problem with a marginal holding oop. We dont know if villain is betting his missed flusdraws on river and we lose by folding. Usually when giving the opportunity to bluff they will bluff once or twice and than shut down....

Not yet watched video's of poker in practice. But should do I guess.

Originally posted by advancedTN1984
Thank you for your extensive reply.

1. Yes it hits our range hard. But I dont think we can get 3 streets of value by betting our A2s for example. Even on the microlimit NL10. And then I think check calling A2s is having a higher expected value then relentlessly "value"betting.

3. True, not c=betting all boards. But our c-bet % will be too high if we start betting allmost every A-High board. The A-High board contributes for around 20%. So C-betting close to 100% will affect it dramaticly(I Imagine).

4. If we check, we don't plan to give up on the hand. There is maybe an opportunity to bluff on river and extract more value as exploit. It's not that we are bluffed off our marginal hand.

Let's forget about 5. I have to look them up, rewatch a video because I dont have the arguments by hand.

About 6. Well let's first make things clear, I am not looking to win big on nl10, lol. For discussion I play some NL10 on pokerstars, because of lack of bankroll there, and dont have the intention to build knowledge on playing with hud.... That doesnt mean I dont play nl25/nl50, but in a hudless environment I can't track and discuss hands, makes the context a little bit different ^^, but can look up an example in the hudless environment on nl50, if that makes the context and play better. So I like to make money and like to improve my game.

Also I like to apply theory that as is stated in weasels academy, it is not that it is just my thoughts.

1. We are talking about flop play here. This does not mean we automatically bet 3 streets. Axx, Kxx boards hit our range perfectly and we should be cbetting close to 100%. Maybe we can xxcour strong Ax on dry boards.
3. Do you know how many other wet boards we will not cbet? Our cbet % will not be that high.
4. If we are going to xc, I prefer to cbet more. I want to have the initiative.
5. It is not that bad to go autoprofit. And our hand is right there, in the autoprofit cathegory...
6. Taking advantage of the situation will make you money.

Originally posted by advancedTN1984

Originally posted by nitrol

It should be close to 100!!!

Close to 100 is not exactly 100.....

We can xc our strong Ax on dry Axx boards...

Originally posted by advancedTN1984

Originally posted by la55i
If we had A2 here I would usually bet flop and usually turn and then decide OTR (probably check folding).
Have you watched w34z3l's poker in practice series?

Why not cbet and make him fold big than xc, let him have initiative, and not know what to do on later streets with marginal holding oop?
I think thats a problem with a marginal holding oop. We dont know if villain is betting his missed flusdraws on river and we lose by folding. Usually when giving the opportunity to bluff they will bluff once or twice and than shut down....

Not yet watched video's of poker in practice. But should do I guess.

Originally posted by nitrol

Originally posted by advancedTN1984
Thank you for your extensive reply.

1. Yes it hits our range hard. But I dont think we can get 3 streets of value by betting our A2s for example. Even on the microlimit NL10. And then I think check calling A2s is having a higher expected value then relentlessly "value"betting.

3. True, not c=betting all boards. But our c-bet % will be too high if we start betting allmost every A-High board. The A-High board contributes for around 20%. So C-betting close to 100% will affect it dramaticly(I Imagine).

4. If we check, we don't plan to give up on the hand. There is maybe an opportunity to bluff on river and extract more value as exploit. It's not that we are bluffed off our marginal hand.

Let's forget about 5. I have to look them up, rewatch a video because I dont have the arguments by hand.

About 6. Well let's first make things clear, I am not looking to win big on nl10, lol. For discussion I play some NL10 on pokerstars, because of lack of bankroll there, and dont have the intention to build knowledge on playing with hud.... That doesnt mean I dont play nl25/nl50, but in a hudless environment I can't track and discuss hands, makes the context a little bit different ^^, but can look up an example in the hudless environment on nl50, if that makes the context and play better. So I like to make money and like to improve my game.

Also I like to apply theory that as is stated in weasels academy, it is not that it is just my thoughts.

1. We are talking about flop play here. This does not mean we automatically bet 3 streets. Axx, Kxx boards hit our range perfectly and we should be cbetting close to 100%. Maybe we can xxcour strong Ax on dry boards.
3. Do you know how many other wet boards we will not cbet? Our cbet % will not be that high.
4. If we are going to xc, I prefer to cbet more. I want to have the initiative.
5. It is not that bad to go autoprofit. And our hand is right there, in the autoprofit cathegory...
6. Taking advantage of the situation will make you money.

Yes we are talking about flop play but the flop play can't be seen without also having some plan for turn, river i guess. Why should we close to c=bet around 100%? I dont see it, its not the maximum expected value line because you dont give the villain rope to bluff the hero. Qualitatively you narrow his range to Ax, Qx, maybe gutshots and flushdraws, you are a lot of the time behind on the turn when c=betting with Qx. That's not the result you want if you can get value out of all of his air range. And there is a lot of air in villains range.