JJ over pair OOP

seems fine

You may also consider 3betting preflop

I certainly dont like donking here. Check calling flop, turn and c/folding this river would be my play.

The way you played it i dont believe this player would turn any showdown value into bluff (Tx, 99, etc). QQ should also check behind this river. So he is basically representing AA, KT, Kx of clubs (he should not have any other kings in his range as they would fold earlier). Sets would raise flop/turn i believe.

In my experience nl10 players do not overbluff in this spot so i will believe him too and check/fold

I don't like donking. I would x/c flop and turn and then x/f river as suggested above. When you play it like this and check OTR your range is capped and I see many bluffs in villains range.

Why you guys don't like donking here ?

What hands are we usually donking? If we add overpairs like this would we be donking too much? What do we want to accomplish with a donk and what it actually accomplishes?

Why do you like donking?

I think by donking we will fold out a lot of hands that will otherwise bet and give us value, we will isolate ourselves against tighter range and it will induce raises quite often and I wouldn't want to see a raise. I don't like donking here because I just don't see any reason why to donk and it is not a standard play. I can accept that donking is good if you are able to give some good reasons to do so

Donking's ok, i'd ask myself if I were you how many Kx he's got there.

Originally posted by la55i
What hands are we usually donking? If we add overpairs like this would we be donking too much? What do we want to accomplish with a donk and what it actually accomplishes?

Why do you like donking?

I think by donking we will fold out a lot of hands that will otherwise bet and give us value, we will isolate ourselves against tighter range and it will induce raises quite often and I wouldn't want to see a raise. I don't like donking here because I just don't see any reason why to donk and it is not a standard play. I can accept that donking is good if you are able to give some good reasons to do so

Well the only reason I like the donk here is the one OP mentioned - villain is cbeting quite a little. And the board is quite wet, so that adds up.

T32 is far from wet board...
Low dry board - We xc.

Originally posted by nitrol
T32 is far from wet board...
Low dry board - We xc.

I disagree. I think it is more on wet side than on dry side.

T98 is wet board.

Originally posted by nitrol
T98 is wet board.

Boards are not either wet or dry. There is not a strict line between them. Yes, T98 is a wet board. Td9d8h is more wet than Th9h8c board. T32 is more wet than 22T board. Tc3h2h is more wet thjan Tc3h2d.

And yes, T98 is more wet than T32. By a lot. But that doesnt mean, T32 is dry board.

Nothing like that. T98 is a wet board. Period.
T32 is a dry low board. Period.

Originally posted by nitrol
Nothing like that. T98 is a wet board. Period.
T32 is a dry low board. Period.

I have different opinion. Period

Btw: solid arguments and explanation

I think categorizing flops on "dry. period" and "wet. period" is not 100% correct. We have had discussions before if the flop is wet or dry and in several cases I have said that it is semi dry or semi wet.

I did some quick research and looked into 7 sources. Usually the term wet means that the board is highly coordinated and potentially dangerous. So what determines the wetness of the flop is the amount of same suit cards and the connectedness. Dry boards on the other hand do not provide many possibilities for drawing hands. This is also relative to villains range. According to one source there are also neutral flops that fall between dry and wet.

One different way of looking at this seems to be if the flop is dynamic or static. This is kind of similar. In dynamic board the winning hand likely isn't made yet. In static it is very likely already made.

The flop was 3♣ T♥ 2♣

In this case that T doesn't hit so big part of villains range. Villain has many suited hands, he has 54s, A4s,A5s. I would say this board is dynamic and the winning hand likely hasn't been made yet. It offers some straight possibilities to low suited connectors and Ax hands and flush draw is possible.
On the other hand there is one high card and two very low, which means that straight draws are not as likely as if the board was T98.

I would say this flop is more wet than dry. But it is not soaking. I would call it semi wet, or neutral.

donking multi-way would seem like a better option to me. But heads-up we lose value vs. his bluffs OTF. What if he had a holding with good backdoors that bets the flop but folds to a donk? Some guys even double-barrel with complete air if checked to.

As played, folding the river is good. Also, 1/2 pot is almost always a valuebet and no busted draw

Originally posted by MisterSnS

Also, 1/2 pot is almost always a valuebet and no busted draw

This is based on what ? Your experience only or ? What sizing u think would be made by most villains with busted draw ?

Originally posted by la55i
I think categorizing flops on "dry. period" and "wet. period" is not 100% correct. We have had discussions before if the flop is wet or dry and in several cases I have said that it is semi dry or semi wet.

I did some quick research and looked into 7 sources. Usually the term wet means that the board is highly coordinated and potentially dangerous. So what determines the wetness of the flop is the amount of same suit cards and the connectedness. Dry boards on the other hand do not provide many possibilities for drawing hands. This is also relative to villains range. According to one source there are also neutral flops that fall between dry and wet.

One different way of looking at this seems to be if the flop is dynamic or static. This is kind of similar. In dynamic board the winning hand likely isn't made yet. In static it is very likely already made.

The flop was 3♣ T♥ 2♣

In this case that T doesn't hit so big part of villains range. Villain has many suited hands, he has 54s, A4s,A5s. I would say this board is dynamic and the winning hand likely hasn't been made yet. It offers some straight possibilities to low suited connectors and Ax hands and flush draw is possible.
On the other hand there is one high card and two very low, which means that straight draws are not as likely as if the board was T98.

I would say this flop is more wet than dry. But it is not soaking. I would call it semi wet, or neutral.

The wetness is not determined by the suitedness. Here we have a more dry flop then wet as you have only fd and small possibility for sd .
Many players mess flush board with wet board.

Originally posted by MisterSnS
But heads-up we lose value vs. his bluffs OTF.

But someone with AF 0,4 WTSD 13 and cbet 38 never bluffs

I dont want to checkback and see some overcard or another clubs on the turn

Originally posted by la55i
I think categorizing flops on "dry. period" and "wet. period" is not 100% correct. We have had discussions before if the flop is wet or dry and in several cases I have said that it is semi dry or semi wet.

I did some quick research and looked into 7 sources. Usually the term wet means that the board is highly coordinated and potentially dangerous. So what determines the wetness of the flop is the amount of same suit cards and the connectedness. Dry boards on the other hand do not provide many possibilities for drawing hands. This is also relative to villains range. According to one source there are also neutral flops that fall between dry and wet.

One different way of looking at this seems to be if the flop is dynamic or static. This is kind of similar. In dynamic board the winning hand likely isn't made yet. In static it is very likely already made.

The flop was 3♣ T♥ 2♣

In this case that T doesn't hit so big part of villains range. Villain has many suited hands, he has 54s, A4s,A5s. I would say this board is dynamic and the winning hand likely hasn't been made yet. It offers some straight possibilities to low suited connectors and Ax hands and flush draw is possible.
On the other hand there is one high card and two very low, which means that straight draws are not as likely as if the board was T98.

I would say this flop is more wet than dry. But it is not soaking. I would call it semi wet, or neutral.

You should look to how the board is connecting with somebodies range. This board has 2 low cards and 1 middle card with a flush draw, and possible a straightdraw some gutshots. But 23, dont connect with a lot of people's MP range, and therefore I consider this board as more dry then wet.