Set OTT, ugly river

Depends on how good villain thinks.

That river shouldn't scare you that much. J8 and 85 got there, but they were gutshots.

Does it scare villain? Maybe, maybe not. If he is a little clever, it doesn't scare him, but is he thinking you get scared?.

Thus small value bet/bluff induce and even bet/call are possible. I'd play it safe against unknown, playing it like you did figuring he doesn't bet worse himself for value. Call a raise? Difficult, depends on bet size stacks and player.

At micros you can just overfold vs river raises. It doesn't matter if villain bluffed you this time, on the long run you will save money because they usually just don't bluff raise rivers.

yep, totally agree with la55i, no need to pay here on 4 straight board at micro. Good laydown.

I bet bigger OTT. Other is ok.

I fold this, MP+1 does not seem a maniac by the stats I can see. But why not think about what we are representing here? A bit of a trick is to pretend there is a player you know nothing about sitting in your seat, and try to guess what he could have.

I think the flop check is natural for the SBs range here, both monsters and junk and everything inbetween, well maybe not preflop monsters, I would expect the best hands to raise pre, but I would still expect the check on the flop into this many players.

The turn we see a bet, this could be a random stab, but I do not think it is that likely. This is a bet into three players. Good missed draws are possible though, I would expect an 8 to bet a fair amount, sets, two pairs, top pair all that stuff.

When the T comes, I am expecting a random ace to give up sometimes, i think there is a chance 2 pair, sets and a made straight bets... I do not expect missed draws to bet. Because I think a lot of what called on the turn is likely to call on the river, im sure there could be some missed flush draws folding, but the SB just does not seem to have much bluffs anyway so that is fairly irrelevant.

Basically, we ain't bluffing, we ain't got junk, and we just got raised by someone who does not appear to be a complete maniac.
I fold.

Wow, kondor101RNMD, that was an impressive answer! Thanks a lot!

As played, I would call OTR here : you need 28% equity and in NL2 he could definitively do that with 2P.
And from the stat we have there's some 8 we can remove from his range when he openraise MP PF. Only 8 left in his range are 88, A8, maybe J8s.

I call and take a note (and I expect AT here ;)).

Didn't see he raised when I posted first. Almost unknowns aren't clever enough to bluff raise here in general. Easy fold. A call requires two good players, knowing each other.

Originally posted by YohanN7
Didn't see he raised when I posted first. Almost unknowns aren't clever enough to bluff raise here in general. Easy fold. A call requires two good players, knowing each other.

What do you do with hands, that you beat but are not bluff (at least in his mind ^^) ? eg. : AT, A9 ?

Originally posted by piR

Originally posted by YohanN7
Didn't see he raised when I posted first. Almost unknowns aren't clever enough to bluff raise here in general. Easy fold. A call requires two good players, knowing each other.

What do you do with hands, that you beat but are not bluff (at least in his mind ^^) ? eg. : AT, A9 ?

I see what you mean. If this is the case, then so be it. He wins on unknowingly turning two pair into a bluff. This rarely will happen.