Funny hand, so thought I would share it!

The good thing is that villain raised you on the flop where it makes 0 sense to actually raise. If it was only on the river, all kind of things could have arrived...
So, well done!

Thanks Sven!
Yeah I agree, if he check calls flop/turn and then Jam's river, I probably fold. But the way he played, I'm like 99% sure he has complete air and he is bluffing the river. He made a huge portion of today's winning session

Bluffing is so hard when you rep what the other player has!

well played I think you need to call it off.no matter what. the only 2 hands I can kind of see played like this would be another 8x holding or A high flush draw. The only thing that takes out the A high FD is the raise on flop which is a bit weird but he would be raise any 8x.

The same holds true i think for his thought process on turn, I believe once you call he has to put you on an 8, what else would call an over bet with. yes you would call with a boat as well.. As for river play villain would be guessing you have the 8's with no raise on turn so maybe took Full house out of equation, then with the spade falling figure he give it a go with the flush on board to see if he could scare you off trips.

NH

KEEP GRINDING

Hey, thanks for your share of thoughts! Reason why he cant really have A high flush, there was no 3bet pre, and by the book you 3bet all your suited Ax vs A steal from BTN, CO. Even if he had Ax of spades, lets assume you check raise flop as A bluff to try to take it down, but then when you improve to a nut flush draw, you don't over bet pot on turn, makes no sense And then even with A high flush you dont Jam river for 200bb stack on paired board. Also none of 8x check raises flop, cause you dont get worse hands to call you really, you make your opponent fold all their bluffs by doing so.

Maybe this Villain didn't read that book? Maybe villain doesn't like to 3bet or is scared of it. You can use a bunch of different reason.. I can show you in multiple instants where villains do not 4 bet AA or KK, with out any stats on villain it is hard to know the real answer, we can just assume, as everyone does.

2nd, not saying solvers are the answer. GTO wizard had about also any hand holding an 8 so about c/5 about 55-60% of the time except for if you make quads then you checking 80% of time.. so it does show a mixed strategy. My reasoning to that would be, that depending on the range of your hands you are calling about 50% of your range being 8x, any pocket pair above 8, gut buster draws possible and possible 2 over cards ie: AK AQ suited and unsuited, possible, not definite but possible. so i think at least flop wise there is value to get..

now on turn when called by IP villain, you have about 70% check A8 K8 are all leads with over bet mixed again at 50% but there is no checking on those 2 hands, as well as the lowest check frequency is about 30% on all 8x combo hands.. My thought on this all is "value bets", what could you be calling a flop c/r with an 8 or over pairs.. Maybe AKs so now you are on a FD draw, but as you said could be worried about Full house.

Now river- he jams A8 and K8 doesn't jam q8 and leads with all 8's below that for 25bb also shows jams of 76 and 75 suited of course. I think this is just getting value from all lower 8x and eating it if a BD flush came in.. Added in after post:: i am guessing he jammed j9 with the busted gut draw.. little nutty when you call the over bet..... in the end hoping to get you off trip 8's with the flush out there.. IDK

But in the end it all doesn't matter cause he played j8 unsuited like this that doesn't even make it on the radar of the solver.. So you cant really figure out what some players are thinking.. Mark as Manic!!!.. and enjoy the 200 BB..

once again reads into solver are IMO and with no reads on villain.. you tell me he is a 65vpip and 32PRF and a 34CC then it changes how I think.. NH and GL to you

Everything you just said makes sense all the way till the river. Only hands that I'm beat by is 83 Q8 68 and 33/66/QQ. It's safe to say Villain all most never has QQ here (maybe 0.5% of the times he does and then he stacks us off) 83/Q8/68 we block all of these hands but it still could be possible they have it. 33s are very unlikely cause yet again, you barely ever check raise the flop here, cause you want me to catch up and you never overbet the turn on a FD cause you aren't scared of it and you don't want me to fold a FD here. So now that we arrive at river and he Jams he either has the Nuts or complete air. As the hand was played, it's way more likely it's a complete bluff, than a value bet. Cause only hands that are over betting turn even in theory are 68/A8/K8/J8/T8 and 66 as a bluff. Now that river brings a flush and there is a FH possibility A8/K8/J8/T8 goes for thing value bet not a Jam, 33s/66s/Q8/38 could jam for value, but then again, none of these hands play Flop and Turn like this. So by the river we are either vs a complete bluff or vs 68/66s.

Only hands that I'm beat by is 83 Q8 68 and 33/66/QQ.

NO you are beat by str8s A8,K8,Q8,J8, and 108.

It's safe to say Villain all most never has QQ here (maybe 0.5% of the times he does and then he stacks us off)

Agree..

As for 33 I don't understand I am guessing you mean 44. The villain should up with j9 unsuited, I would put him in the area that he could show up with 84 suited if he is playing j9 unsuited in BB.

With your idea of not c/r the flop with certain hands so opponents are able to "caught up" What hands are you catching up with??? Their isn't many that would be catching up to pay you off with a stack... I think if he made a hand on flop I can see it being played same way.. All I am trying to say.

I would be willing to say his value to bluff ratio is probably pretty close and with his almost 2x river bet he is probably looking at 55% value hands and 45% bluff.

just my opinion, I think you played it fine and have to call off the river no matter what the bet is...... just different reads, you may have played more hands against villain as well and have more intuition on the hand then I do as well. keep in mind I am just looking at a HH of the hand played and am kinda in teh dark with everything else. I see no timing on bets or anything else.. like if it was a Snap all in river bet. etc.

So well played hand and good drag on a 400BB pot.. Keep Going!!! and GL:f_thumbsup:

Well I agree to some parts of what you are saying, but like I said, I assume he is a reg since no previous hands played with him. What I'm trying to say is, even if u call at BB with 84 suited here, and if u check/raise my bet, you are forcing me to fold most of my range, therefore you won't extract any value from my bluffs. Even if I had AA here, I fold On turn after the Over bet. It's not about stacking someone off, it's about extracting as much value as you can from your opponents range. If the villain flops the nuts that are soooo unlikely to be beat on later streets, it makes no sense to c/r the flop in this scenario. The board is dry, his represented hand need's completely no protection, so you just let me keep firing my bluffs and check/raise on later streets for value.

Thanks, best of luck to you as well!

I dont think villain is repping any Q here, I think hea repping 88,44 84 and some gutshot straight draw bluffs. When he check raises flop hes taking initiative and the betting control.
Turn bet hes polarizing but the Q should be better for CO’s range so when BB takes this line I think he is very strong.

The spade on the turn can give him additional equity with his suited gutshots. River jam seems very value heavy, villains bluffs with hands like 76ss, 65ss get . Villains draws on flop could also be hands like A3ss, A2ss,A5ss.

Most of his bluffs hit on the river I think the river is a clear fold

The overbet on the turn by villain is not actually a bad idea I dont think because the Q is good for CO’s range if Co has a queen here he has difficulty folding and if BB did have a nutted hand he would be getting good value bet in because a strong queen likely wont fold turn

It's to bad we know the outcome of the hand right away.

If I had a really good hand I would have bet around half pot on turn and river. Now it looks like villian wants to try to get you out of the hand. Any reads on bet sizing tells could help as well against him/her.

Cheers,
SDK1987