Both MP and CO are regulars, with QQ obviously I decided to raise stake with 4bet. Initial raiser - MP cold calls and CO folds. What is your plan postflop? How do you perceive opponent range? Does it change anything for you that initial raiser calls instead of guy who put 3bet?
What hero did I will tell later, but for many I assume it will be very controversial play 
So many questions so little info. It's you that could answer them. If they are regulars this means that you know them better than us. Anyway, 4bet seems fine. As played i am gonna cbet OTF
Does it change anything for you that initial raiser calls instead of guy who put 3bet?
Is there any history or dynamics between the two of you? Have you seen him do stuff like that before? Your image is important factor as well if this is normal table
When this happens, I think MP has a hand that is too weak to 5-bet or shove and too strong to fold in his mind. I perceive this similar to people that cold-call 3-bets. Their range is face-up imo. Also he has no incentive to trap here, because he should be looking to get heads-up with the top of his range. If I add my personal experience to this, he's going to show up with JJ and AQ most of the time. His range though it's going to look something like 99-JJ, AJs, AQs/AQo and maybe AKo and that's it basically. I really don't see any other holdings.
On this flop, with a c-bet, we probably fold out 99 and AKo/AQs/AQo which is fine because they have reasonable equity vs us, they can turn a K or A.
We get value from TT and AJs and we loose against JJ. It's a clear c-bet imo and re-evaluate turn.
Originally posted by NapoleonBonaparte135
If they are regulars this means that you know them better than us.
MP - vpip: 24, pfr: 20, 3bet:9 4bet: 13% fold3Bet: 54%
CO - vpip: 22, pfr:18, 3bet:10, note: probably overbluffs against capped range
No special reads.
They seem like a relatively tight opponents. I definetly dont like his call of the 4bet. This seem like a lot of strenght. He has a 3betor behind as well. He is not afraid of him. This could ring some bells.
If they are regulars i expect them to be reasonable players. Cant see reasonable player call 99-JJ,AJ,AQ, KQ maybe even AK in this spot especially with a player behind. So as played you want his range as wide as possible. Check OTF seems logical now.
They seem like a relatively tight opponents. I definetly dont like his call of the 4bet. This seem like a lot of strenght. He has a 3betor behind as well. He is not afraid of him. This could ring some bells.
Would you check fold in this spot?
c betting flop, small 25%. if NO AK on turn i am small betting again, even if a club falls.
I checked in the dark because there was no flop when this thread started. lol
But now that I see it, sure, we need to bet small on flop, and tread carefully on turn.
Would you check fold in this spot?
Probably not without reads but wont be happy to call a bet as well. It's borderline and very rare situation. But i am towards check call.
I said controversial.... so I did this:
I feel his range is just too strong to do anything else. Solver(GTOWizard) almost never calls and folds from MP a lot QQ(pure fold on nl50 rake, 40% on nl500 rake). There is also no incentive to make expensive calls like this when rake is taken postflop and from my observation solid regs dont have cold calling range to 3bet and there we have even more costly cold call to 4bet. This range has to be _very_ strong. What would you cold call to 4bet there against two regs with uncapped ranges?
I checked for similar spots in database and If I interpret results properly then I had +/- 20% equity on flop and 3/4 of those calls are actually traps with KK+.
Originally posted by mkBISCUIT
c betting flop, small 25%. if NO AK on turn i am small betting again, even if a club falls.
So you mainly giving V AK combos here? As JJ shouldn't call a 4 bet as CO might 5 bet/shove and Hero still has to act?
What would you cold call to 4bet there against two regs with uncapped ranges?
AA? I've never done this so I wouldn't really know (maybe once or twice and it didn't work out), you see AA at 2nl and its bang bang bang...:facepalm: 
AA? I've never done this so I wouldn't really know (maybe once or twice and it didn't work out)
If villian is reading hero for a bluff then trap it's not that bad. He has position as well. The idea is if he 5bet jams he will chase all of his bluffs out of the hand. But by cold calling it's possible to rope him postflop and take his entire stack. It works well against an aggressive opponents.
pretty much everything i have seen, not many regs have 5 bet ranges, the only things i can see jamming 5bet is AA,KK,AK i also would see as a 4 bet calling range to be. JJ-AA- AK and MAYBE AQsuited. IMO
If villian is reading hero for a bluff then trap it's not that bad. He has position as well.
He can't do this because he is playing not only hero but also CO. And both of them have ranges with bluffs that crush AQs.
not many regs have 5 bet ranges, the only things i can see jamming 5bet is AA,KK,AK i also would see as a 4 bet calling range to be. JJ-AA- AK and MAYBE AQsuited. IMO
Too much to call. Solvers play there QQ+,AK only. Its also true that people have too tight cold 4bet which results in even tighter response for cold 4bet. I'm pretty sure after seeing numbers that people just fold majority of QQ and AK preflop as initial raiser. Interesting is fact that it looks like people likes to defend there more QQ than AK which is opposite to what solver does(it assumes AK has nice blockers so it want to go all in to push out equity of bluffs like AQs or KQs).
I will also add that people win 42% of hands they defend to normal 4bet(as one who made 3bet). Cold calls against cold 4bet and we are talking about 58% - thats another indicator that makes me comfortable that this fold is good. In best case scenario it would be slightly EV+ call, in worst I'm losing like 10bb from 14 if I call.
To be honest only thing that make me hestitant is how deep we are because its valid reason why you would want to develop cold calling range in this situation. Well, people are also more honest in big pots so probably it doesntn change range of opponents enough to make difference.
He can't do this because he is playing not only hero but also CO. And both of them have ranges with bluffs that crush AQs.
Was talking about trapping with AA.
Ranges with bluffs that crush AQs?:f_confused:
Both MP and BB have a lot of AK that technically is semibluff as 3bet or 4bet as we prefer we take pot preflop.
