AKKQss

bet/fold if faced with all in

I dont like to bet fold here. We can be still ahead after his shove. When I dont feel comfortable with bet/fold nor bet/call i like to check back. You can easily call his bet on turn and revealuete river, or bet/call on turn.

If i bet SPR is below 1..
So i'm getting insane odds to call vs shove.
So after a bet, folding isn't an option for me anymore.
I would like that with an ace high FD, but not with the K high FD.

I think in such a multiway pot check calling is likely fine. I would mostly continue if I had the NFD.

Check, see what happens. If people keep shoving money in your can probably fold, but for example vs 1 you cannot. Maybe it gets checked around and you pick up more equity.

Hi Skod always wondering what you would do vs standard/unknown and another non board pairing diamond peels off the turn, and someone moves all in, is it correct to fold 2nd nuts knowing that you also hold 3rd nuts and that it is unlikely someone will do this with 4th nuts or worse?

Originally posted by FlyingDutchm1n
Hi Skod always wondering what you would do vs standard/unknown and another non board pairing diamond peels off the turn, and someone moves all in, is it correct to fold 2nd nuts knowing that you also hold 3rd nuts and that it is unlikely someone will do this with 4th nuts or worse?

You answered your own question there didn't you? Trust your logic in cases like this. The problem is sometimes someone uses the blocker but overall i like folding.

I like the check plan if we can handle the action or any turncard. And know what exactly to do in any kind of situation that can appear when checking.
But I have problems doing that I would either take a coaching with you Skod
OR
I would bet/shove the Flop as we have good eqity against madehands and a SPR<2.
35% vs TSET
41% vs N
48% vs T2
+ alot of FE against a bare NFD.
What do you think?

I think we should try and avoid a spot where we are hoping villain looks us up with a straight or set. I can see the idea of why a shove looks tempting in for some here, but i still believe checking is better. Is it going to be easier to play? Hell no. Is it a more EV play? I really believe so. 4way the likelyhood of someone having a better FD here is quite big (i'm not sure % wise, but it's probably more than you would think), so when that happens we are in a really bad shape since it's probably going to go mw in and we are not gonna have the best hand on the flop, so we will be probably drawing dead.

There is rarely 1 single hand we are doing bad against. The problem arises when you realize that in a pot this big people will rarely fold any equity with so much dead money. The more hands in, the worst our equity looks like when the nfd is live.

So basically to sum it up. I think checking is best here, but bet/stacking off can't really be terrible either, i just think checking is superior. The more i think about it the less sure i am of how superior it is, and if you made a really compelling argument i might even change my mind. But potting here and stacking off is so variance heavy it's not even funny, so i'd have to be 100% sure it's + EV to do it.

If you are really interested you should do some calculations on a spot like this with ppt or something. Should be fun to see the results, even though it's hard to really assign preflop ranges at this level.

HU you can definetly go for it with this spr, that's a given. But once there's more than 3 people in the pot i think i'd need a lower spr to be happy to gii here.

Btw i think we have 0 FE vs a nfd. Noone is folding a NFD here ever.

Regards,

Skod

I can see the value of your arguments.
SInce u can define Vs range when everyone of the deas an action. For example if the CO pushes, its more likely a wider range, and if everyone else folds it's a more easy broke.
But if for instance the BU bets or we have more then 1 guy allready invest money, the decision is more on a fold side.
Also our relative position to the fish gets better, since he will call wider, than he raises.