Originally posted by JaredTendler
Originally posted by Helipacter
Originally posted by JaredTendler
Originally posted by Helipacter
Okay, this question could be a bit fluffy:
What tips/tools/advice can you offer a player that is tilting, knows it, but won't leave the table. (Fortunately, it doesn't happen so often to me, but when it does it's like a tractor beam, and all roads lead to to the kingdom of Busto.)
In my experience, the following scenarios have occurred:
1) I normally set myself a hand limit for the session (say 200), on hand 180 I get a bad beat, and I feel the evil rise. After a while I "wake up" on, say, hand 300. I realise that I've spent the passed 120 hands wishing cancer on the guy whilst still trying to recoup some losses, but I cannot leave the table.
2) If I get one-outed by some bum, I immediately leave the table and say "no poker for 24hours". Two hours later I'm back at my desk raging at the world.
I'm fully aware that I know I'm steaming (temples pulsing), but I can't snap out of it.
So, long story short, how does a person get their mind off a bad session whilst still in a tilt-funk?
Cheers
There's nothing fluffy about this question - unless we have different definitions of fluffy:)
The only way to correct this type of tilt is to do a lot of work away from the table to break down your Accumulated Tilt (or so I call it). Basically, in your mind, you have have collected anger/tilt over the years and now whenever you have a bad beat, or suck-out, it's like your mind is instantly flooded with emotion. So much emotion, that it overwhelms your mind and you lose control. Frankly, it's nearly impossible for you to be in control when the emotion is that strong.
The reason is that thinking is essentially how the mind maintains control. However, when emotions rise too high, they shut down the mind, and prevent you from being about to think, and thus maintain emotional control.
Which is why your job is to do work away from the table to break down this accumulated emotion, so they're is less of it to deal with and thus easier to maintain control. AND then you need to also get better at maintaining control during your session.
I'll be honest, this is the most difficult thing to accomplish in the mental game. The work you do off the table, has to be taken with the seriousness as though you're preparing for a poker life/death situation. I'm happy to help you work through some of it in the forum. If you can afford it, I'd definitely recommend getting my book, it's designed to help clearly lay out how to address a problem like this. Then, my help in the forum, would be much more productive.
Either way, what is is about a bad beat/suck out that causes you to get so angry?
Sorry, the post began fluffy, but became concrete, so I should've changed the first line - my bad!
Thanks for the offer, though I'm speaking more in general than specifics. I've definitely had these emotions at the beginning of my "poker career", but now I can recognise them brewing away and shut down before they get too much (thank you Tommy Angelo!). The greatest anti-tilt tactic ever: click "leave table" and go and do something productive (cooking or gardening are great for this!). If I'm on the end of consecutive bad beats, I run, not walk, to the exits!
My worst "tilt habit" is chasing losses; say I'm 5BB down, I'll stay a little longer than optimal - but again, this is something I'm working on.
I suppose I should've phrased my argument better. Basically, are there any tips to talk yourself out of playing under a cloud of tilt, or is it merely a case of recognising it, and convincing yourself that you're wasting your time? (This isn't exclusively tilt either, but sleep, hunger, drink - sub-optimal is sub optimal, I suppose tilt is the worst because there can be a sense of shame attached to it - you've always lost to a moron, right?!.)
Whilst I'm not immune from tilt (who is?), I wouldn't say that I play in an angry state of mind. I realise that I give someone the satisfaction of seeing me leave immediately following their one-outer on the river, but I do take satisfaction in the fact that they're not getting any more of my BBs.
(Apologies for the wall of text!)
no worries.
There are things you can do beyond recognizing it, but the next step is definitely the more complex part. Recognition is a huge first step - you have no chance of the second one with it out it.
You're on the right track with convincing yourself, but what is important is the specifics of what you're convincing yourself of. See, the anger that you're experiencing, even if it's at low levels is happening for a reason (Btw, there are tons of players who tilt in subtle ways that still affect their performance). What you want to say to yourself is a correction in the flaw causing the anger.
Figuring out the underlying cause of your anger can take a little bit of digging, but once you find the cause of your anger, the correction to it is what you want to say to yourself. You need to make sure that you're saying in the moments when tilt begins to show itself, and then you need to force yourself to playing longer.
I know that goes against your current strategy of quitting at the first sign of tilt, but ultimately, if you want to solve your tilt problem - and believe me there are many many clients of mine who have solved it - you need to be able to control your tilt, while at the table. Quitting is not a real solution, it's a way of managing tilt.
Does this help?
Hi Jared,
Hmmm... this is getting interesting.
Tilt, in my opinion, is entirely ego-based; I see it as being linked with how you perceive yourself , and how others perceive you. If you lose a hand to an inferior player, or you realise that you have a hole in your game through which someone else has driven a truck, it's obvious that something will begin to brew.
As an example of why I think it's ego based: you never feel as bad when you've realised you've missed value on a river bet as you do when you call a guy's river donk because you "just had to see". In the first instance, only you know you've made a mistake, in the second everyone knows (assuming everyone is watching).
I'm not sure why we should feel angry - these people you're playing don't mean anything to you, so who cares what they think? And if you've lost a hand through bad play, then you're not as great as you think you are, so get to work on that leak.
The next time I tilt, I'll follow your advice and try and work through it at the table. I imagine that to do so, you need to breakdown the anger, and find the root of it.
Additionally, I've used some of the techniques mentioned in the Silver psychology articles on here, which kind of "occupy your mind" and move it away from the tilt, which works for me also.
Thanks again!