Originally posted by JaredTendler
Just finished my second article, should be up soon. So hopefully that'll help too.
A short update here: The article's release is scheduled for the beginning of the next week.
And: it's great! 
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Originally posted by daveshoelace
Awesome answers J-dawg.Ok so I was going to ask this one in private, but I think actually there is no reason to not extend it to the PokerStrategy community.
I have, with some real success, managed to spend a long long period of time focussing only on the quality of my play, and not results. I would say 6 months to be exact, and in very very intense scrutiny. My warms ups are great, I am very consciously aware of what I need to be doing while playing, my warm downs and reviewing my hands are good too. I know the benefit of this, and as a result, my results have been very good.
However, six months in, and I am starting to slip. I am cutting corners with working on my game, cutting corners with my warm ups etc. I put this down to:
A) Some level of fatigue, as I have been working hard at it. I have been getting plenty of rest and breaks, so its not pure burnout.
B) Premature realization of mastery - I think I have learned these habits to the unconscious competence but havent quite yet.My results have still been good, it certainly hasn't been running bad that has derailed this.
So, how would you advise I get over a rut/plateu? I am trying to remind myself to refocus, but it is getting tougher, and easier to fall into bad habits.
Good call asking your question here, this way you're also assured of getting a good answer.
First thing I'm curious is whether or not you've had any drop off in your play? One thing to realize is that often it's hard to know the value of something until you stop doing it. If there's been any drop off in your play, then not doing your warm-up/review, helps to prove how valuable it is.
If there is no drop off in your play, then my suspicion is that you need to change up the specifics to keep it fresh and relevent to what you're working on right now, or hire a coach, watch some videos here, so you can keep pushing your game further.
What you think?
Originally posted by Shevtshenko
Originally posted by JaredTendler
Originally posted by Shevtshenko
Why is it that it gets so much harder to make even relatively easy decisions when you're losing and running badly compared to when you're up and running good? What's the thing that changes in our thought process? Is it just being too optimistic? Maybe that's not a question that can be answered without knowing the person but hopefully you can give your thoughts on this subject.Well, there's always a personal component to the final answer, but generally speaking the issue comes down to how much mental space you actually have to be able to think.
The part of the brain that's responsible for thinking is called, Working Memory. When you actually have thoughts in your head, that's that part of the brain where it happens. There's been a lot of research done on working memory (started by the phone company), and what they've consistently found is that among all people, there's a limit to between 5-9 pieces of information that a person can have in working memory at any one time.
When emotions rise, even if just slightly, the emotional part of the brain becomes more active and actually begins to shut down the thinking part of the brain. Which means, if you could think about say 7 things when playing great, now you can only think about 5, or even 4. If you're really tilting you may only thing about 1 or 2 and the rest are purely automatic decisions.
The key answer to you question is that emotion is shutting down your ability to think, and even though it's subtle, if it's affecting your game you have to treat it like a big problem at the time and do your best to control/resolve that emotion.
Does that help/answer it?
Thanks. Yea that answers it. Hmm, any suggestions on how to improve this? Or should i just purchase your book?
I've heard some good things about it, so i prly will anyway. gl with your sales.
The book definitely breaks things down further than I can in a forum, but I can personalize some advice for you here.
The first thing is that you have to figure out the specific reasons why running bad causes negative emotion. What are some of the things that you say to yourself or outloud, or to other players. Does it feel like you're getting unlucky, do you hate losing, does it affect your goals, etc. Post some more details and then I can give you some specific advice.
Thanks for the well wishes
Originally posted by vonki
This is truly an amazing thread!I absolutely love it, and would like to thank you for providing it to us! I will definitely buy the book when I get the chance.
Keep up the good work!
Appreciate you saying so! I'm psyched to hear you're enjoying it and getting so much out of it.
I'll definitely be interested to hear what you think of the book. ♦
Originally posted by Dublimax
Originally posted by JaredTendler
Originally posted by Dublimax
Hi Jared,I have a question regarding running good / bad and how we play when it happens.
Unlike many people (from what I have read) I think I tend to play better when I am on a losing session/running bad.
e.g after an hour of play I am down let's say 2 stacks (I know I shouldn't check the results while playing but I can't
). Then I am like "ok come on Max let's get back on track" and I start focusing 200%, analyzing fully all the info, explaining all my moves etc...
Instead when I am winning/running hot I might relax more, lose focus a bit, play some draws that I shouldn't play, play to aggro in some spots etc....
Do you have any thoughts on this?
Edit: In fact if I look at my life time graph I usually have a downswing (or more accurately me playing bad) after running good.
Part of the answer to this pattern is right in your answer: Focus. Low focus = low performance. Here's why:
It all comes down to thinking. When you're super motivated to play well, it's that energy which drives your mind into the highest gear. That intense energy is tough to sustain day in and day out. Unless you really train for it. Without the need to force yourself into that gear, you naturally relax, which means you actually don't have the mental energy to think as deeply or intensely as you do when it's called upon.
Here's the key: Focus is driven by goals.
Your goals sound to me, to be mostly about money/results. Money/results matter, don't get me wrong. I'm not one of those guys who says just go out and do as well as you can. At the end of the day results are what it all comes down to. However, in poker, and in other games/sports, you ability to achieve results comes down to the quality of how you play relative to the demands of the game. I suggest that you set quality goals for every single time you play. Playing isn't just about how much you make, it's also about how well you played. Work your ass off to consistently put in that intense effort (or at least something close to it) and see what you can really accomplish on a consistent basis.
This help/make sense?
Yep makes sense.
One thing that I would like to add though. I don't think I am really driven by the amount of money I make but as you said it is hard to completely stand back from the results (which is how much you win or lose) because that's how we evaluate ourselves.
But I definitely need to set a goal before each session I play which to play focus 100%.Thanks for the input.
Glad you clarified, bc you made me realize something I forgot to your point.
The thing about quality goals too though it that they still produce results that you can evaluate, they're just a little harder to because it's not like money that can easily be added up. But, with some work, you can set goals around the quality of your play or the quality of your focus, for example, and then evaluate the results of your play/focus afterward.
Your quality goals would be essentially what you're evaluating afterwards.
Yw. Hope it helps you improve.
Originally posted by axelphoney
Hey there!I thought I had overcome tilt almost completely. But now after having experienced a larger downswing tilt has found its way into my game again..
Some occasions on which I tend to tilt is:
- after getting sucked out
- regular putting a lot of pressure on me which I "fail" to adjust to for the moment
- just loosing pots (big or small) over a period of time (e.g loosing several small/medium pots over half an hour)The first point is actually something I used to deal with very well. But nowaydays, from time to time, a suck out can deteriorate my game a lot.
I am aware of how irrational it is. I mean why care about things you cannot control anyway... But yet I tend to dwell on hands where I get sucked out way too often. I often start thinking to myself something like, "why the hell did you call me there you stupid fish!??", "why does this always happen to me?!", "everytime I hit a good hand someone has to have me beat", "will this ever stop??!!" etc etc.. Frustration is the keyword here.
I guess much of it has to do with the fact that my bankroll is rather crippled after a larger downswing, and I want things to turn around quickly so that I don't have to be worrying about moving down a limit etc. I basically don't like the feeling of beeing on a thin line.
"Move down a limit then", you might say, but that is out of question because I am still sufficiently rolled for my limit, and do not want to play for less money without any good reason.
I would say that the second point is something that in itself doesn't cause the tilt. And by that I mean that it is not anything the triggers the tilt, but rather something that deteriorates an already existing tilt, a side effect.
For instance: lets say I've just lost a big pot where I got sucked out and now this regular is 3 betting me again for the third time in a row and I 4 bet him whereby he goes all in and I have to fold my weak hand. So I start to argue with myself that my play was soooo obivous and I'd be better off just folding the hand right away, although I know that it was a standard 4 bet bluffspot wih the given history, my holding etc.
The third point is similiar to the first one in its causes and effects so I wont get in any more detail with it.
Overall I would say that I am pretty tilt-aware in the sense that I know what causes my tilt and when I am on it. But what I do not know is why I can't overcome it when it happens over and over again for the same irrational reasons..
So I would just like to know if there is anything that you could point to that I haven't found out myself that could be the reason for my persisting tilt, and how I might overcome it.
I agree, you are really tilt aware.
The thing that you're missing is that while it's irrational to care about things you can't control, it's very rational, logically and common to have a subconscious desire to want to control these things. If that's accurate, and given the statements that you said at the top, suggest to me that it's true, then at the first signs of frustration, you need to Inject Logic to remind yourself to focus only on what you control: playing well, keeping your emotions in check, etc. Do that frequently, as it's a bit like swatting a fly that will keep coming back. Keep doing it and work hard at it. Do it, and you'll start to chip away at the cause of your anger. Won't happen over night, but steadily you'll see the intensity decrease.
What do you think?
have u heard of tilt prevention software such as "tilt breaker"? What is your opinion on this software?
Hello and thanks for your great thread
My problem is procrastination and general laziness I spend more time skirting around learning than actual getting on and doing it! I tend to plan how im going to learn or grind but actually never seem to get round to it!
In the real world im a construction site manager and have been earning very good money for the last 5 years, i could do better in my job if I put more effort in but I never seem to manage get on with stuff.
If I find something more interesting than what Im meant to be doing Im so easily side tracked!
Example one : I need to read more ps articles or watch vids but instead i usually get side tracked on the forum reading general posts about non related stuff!
Example two : At work I know I should do more but get side tracked chatting to the the guys who work on my site. ie will spend an hour chatting with the electrician about poker!!!
To be honest Im always suprised how well I seem to do in my job considering the amount of effort I dont put in!!!
Also somedays I just cant be bothered to do anything work related and will just find ways to kill time.
I really feel I could do so much better
Any tips would be great!!!
Roo
Hey Jared,
First of all thanks a ton for writing your book and answering questions here on PS. I purchased your book and I am using it right now and I agree with almost everything I have read and liked your approach very much. My results have been much better almost immediately (though that could just be the short-term confidence boost).
Do you have any specific suggestions on how to deal with motivation/effort issues? I have spent all my life "trying to try" with almost no success. Everything I have been really good at (quite a few sports/games, my academic success, getting jobs and other stuff) has been pretty much effortless and with minimal/no time investment. I am pretty much a poster boy for the theory that people who find things too easy don't know what to do when they stop being easy. I simply don't know how to go about being structured or grinding for 9/10 hours a day or routinely evaluating my game in order to improve and stuff like that. It's not like I can't or don't play a lot/read a lot/review my game. I do, but only when I "feel like" and I have little control over when I feel like "working".
Hey Guys,
So Jared & I both received some damaged copies of the book. All it is slight cosmetic damage to the cover, there is nothing wrong with the books themselves, but we couldn't have sent them out as new. Its a shame to waste them so we are going to sell them at a much reduced rate.
I have six here in the UK, and would love to give you guys first refusal as it will be cheaper for me to send to Europe. Anyone from Europe who wants one of them for $30 including postage, send me an email at barry@mentalgameofpoker.com
Hellooo ,
Here is my question 
.
I've been playing poker for about a year . During this period I've been feeling the constant URGE to become super good , to move up the limits and to fullfill my dreams (ok only the ones related with gaining money and using them for things I want to do) .
But as the gap between desirable and reallity expands drastically ( I play on nl10 ), I start to feel hopeless , sad , angry , unhappy , desperate and tilt more frequently . This stuff leads to some very bad things which have strong influence on me .
So how should I deal with this problem ? I came up with some ideas - which of them is better ?
1. Set more easilly reachable goals - It will be easier to reach them and even if the satisfaction is smaller it will prevent me from being in the states of mind said earlier .
Or
2. Expand the time period in wich I want to reach the master goals - in that way I won't feel that urge to do everything so fast ( But damn , I wan't to everything before I get oldddddd . )
Or maybe
3..... ?
Originally posted by daveshoelace
So Jared & I both received some damaged copies of the book...
what about those with misplaced pages? Mine jumps from pg. 30 to 35, from 36 to 31, from 34 to 43, from 46 to 39 and 42 to 47.
I got it from UK. Is this normal?
Originally posted by i5bet72o
have u heard of tilt prevention software such as "tilt breaker"? What is your opinion on this software?
I have heard of tilt breaker, and have actually been working with the developer a bit. I think the software is good for players who don't have enough control yet. Think of it as training wheels as they work to develop more emotional control.
The developer agrees with me on this point, that it's not a solution to tilt, but a valuable product that can help in the short-run.
Originally posted by roopopper
My problem is procrastination and general laziness I spend more time skirting around learning than actual getting on and doing it! I tend to plan how im going to learn or grind but actually never seem to get round to it!
In the real world im a construction site manager and have been earning very good money for the last 5 years, i could do better in my job if I put more effort in but I never seem to manage get on with stuff.
If I find something more interesting than what Im meant to be doing Im so easily side tracked!Example one : I need to read more ps articles or watch vids but instead i usually get side tracked on the forum reading general posts about non related stuff!
Example two : At work I know I should do more but get side tracked chatting to the the guys who work on my site. ie will spend an hour chatting with the electrician about poker!!!
To be honest Im always suprised how well I seem to do in my job considering the amount of effort I dont put in!!!
Also somedays I just cant be bothered to do anything work related and will just find ways to kill time.
I really feel I could do so much better
Any tips would be great!!!
Roo
Hey Roo, Glad you're enjoying the thread, let's see if you can enjoy it more!
Procrastination is a complex problem because the root cause of it can happen for many reasons: Fear of failure (or success), belief that there's "always tomorrow," conflicting goals (want to enjoy life, and make a lot of money), people who have a lot of talent and things came very easily to them and they never developed proper work ethic to match their talent.
Do any of these seem connected to you? If so, post some more details and I'll give you some specific advice.
Hey,
sorry to interact but I think I have conflicting goals and no work ethics cause of my talent
Any advise?
Originally posted by Prabhatallin
Hey Jared,First of all thanks a ton for writing your book and answering questions here on PS. I purchased your book and I am using it right now and I agree with almost everything I have read and liked your approach very much. My results have been much better almost immediately (though that could just be the short-term confidence boost).
Do you have any specific suggestions on how to deal with motivation/effort issues? I have spent all my life "trying to try" with almost no success. Everything I have been really good at (quite a few sports/games, my academic success, getting jobs and other stuff) has been pretty much effortless and with minimal/no time investment. I am pretty much a poster boy for the theory that people who find things too easy don't know what to do when they stop being easy. I simply don't know how to go about being structured or grinding for 9/10 hours a day or routinely evaluating my game in order to improve and stuff like that. It's not like I can't or don't play a lot/read a lot/review my game. I do, but only when I "feel like" and I have little control over when I feel like "working".
Hi! Thanks for the good words. I'm really happy to hear you're getting so much out of the book. It definitely could be a short-term boost, and the key is to keep working at it, so that boost becomes permanent. Which, seems to lead nicely into the issue you're struggling with.
One of the easiest ways to developing more evaluation, review, or grinding, is to push yourself on days when you don't feel like doing it. On those days, do the minimum (10 minutes of study/review, an hour of play, etc.) Whatever the min means, start with that because something is better than nothing. Pushing yourself to make these very small gains, is a skill often lacking with people who have had effortless improvement with previous endeavors. When things come that easily, there's no incentive to push when things get tough.
Which brings me to my next point - your goals. To help push you through those times when it is going to be harder, you need to Inject Goals, like you would Inject Logic. Basically, using the same process that you would by taking a few deep breaths, and then reminding yourself of your goals (and perhaps also the consequences of failing to push yourself).
What do you think? Will this help?
Originally posted by hohoho321
HelloooHere is my question
I've been playing poker for about a year . During this period I've been feeling the constant URGE to become super good , to move up the limits and to fullfill my dreams (ok only the ones related with gaining money and using them for things I want to do) .
But as the gap between desirable and reallity expands drastically ( I play on nl10 ), I start to feel hopeless , sad , angry , unhappy , desperate and tilt more frequently . This stuff leads to some very bad things which have strong influence on me .
So how should I deal with this problem ? I came up with some ideas - which of them is better ?
1. Set more easilly reachable goals - It will be easier to reach them and even if the satisfaction is smaller it will prevent me from being in the states of mind said earlier .
Or
2. Expand the time period in wich I want to reach the master goals - in that way I won't feel that urge to do everything so fast ( But damn , I wan't to everything before I get oldddddd . )
Or maybe
3. Both
Both of these ideas are great. When your sights are set so big, it becomes impossible to do go through the natural ups/downs and keep working to improve.
I would also suggest setting qualitative goals, around how much your working on your game, what skills you want to develop as a player, mental game goals, such as increasing focus, reducing tilt, etc. These, and other smaller goals, give you the ability to build your game, rather than being forced to show results right away.
Big dreams are great. Turning them into reality is hard. Honestly, you want it that way. If it were easy, everyone could do it, and the reward wouldn't be there.
Originally posted by skinny99
Originally posted by daveshoelace
So Jared & I both received some damaged copies of the book...what about those with misplaced pages? Mine jumps from pg. 30 to 35, from 36 to 31, from 34 to 43, from 46 to 39 and 42 to 47.
I got it from UK. Is this normal?
That is definitely not normal, and we'll send you a replacement asap. I just sent you a friend request so you can message me. Or please send me an email with your name and address, and we'll get a new copy out to you: jared@mentalgameofpoker.com.
Sorry for this.
Hey Jared! I just read your second article and would like to ask something... ♠_biggrin: ♠_biggrin: ♠_biggrin:
1. When people say that tilt is everything that leads to a lower performance than one's best, they actually say that every form of low performance is tilt (being tired, frustrated, angry, steeming, cursing, and so on all become "tilt"), but the thing is that all those forms of poor performance quickly become "types of tilt". When you put tilt into the formula "anger + bad play" you are actually putting the whole universe of tilt into that which people say is just one symptom of tilt (which is anger). I think that once you do this you overvalue the role of anger in the subject of tilt and leave other destructive states of mind like depression, lack of confidence, cursing, etc, outside. Why is that?
=====
2. I often feel that those techniques that you mention in your article, as well as those mentioned by other authors, are good to lower the pressure the person creates inside herself. It is like throwing some water on a fire, but I don't think that the fire itself will be extinguished by the continuous application of these techniques. They look more like a light form of supression to me. The way to end tilt for once and for all, at least those manifestations of tilt that are triggered by bad beats (and generate anger, most of the time) should be an actual understanding of the reduced amount of money that a bad beat actually takes from one's winnings.
I often see people complaining that their made straight on the turn got rivered by someone else's full house, that their floped trips got busted by an opponent's bare flush draw when they both went all in on the flop, and so on. In the same fashion, I also hear a lot of people saying that bad beats are inevitable, that in the long-run such plays turn into a profit and so on, but this is something hard to digest.
My solution to this happened when I went through my database and saw the actual amounts of money I made and lost when going AI on the flop with trips vs an opponent's flush draw, for example, or when I had a straight on the turn and somebody had trips (and I won the hand with my straight or got "beat" when the guy managed to fill up). You know what I discovered? That the amounts lost were ridiculous when compared to the amounts I made. That was the *click* that made me understand how much energy I wasted bragging and how much unnecessary suffering was generated. That was an actual understanding of the thing and now I don't need techniques for reducing the effects of anger no more, because anger or frustration just make no sense to me anymore too.
What do you think about this method?