Coaching: Fixed-Limit [Advanced] with datsmahname

Hey! I'd just like to let you know I've really enjoyed last basic coaching. Particularly, English is not my first language, so I was afraid I wouldn't be able to understand it, but you were very clear dats! I hope I can join the next week too

Hey JL, thanks for the feedback. I know we get a lot of people who speak English as a 2nd or even 3rd language.

Even though English is my first language, its nice to hear that my particular accent is easy enough to understand.

Its not particular your clear accent that makes it easy to understand. It's rather you speak loud and clear. no mumbling (like i tend to) anyways I'm gonna join in regularly from next week (Hopefully!!!) See you tonight ?

Hey Avataren, sorry again about being away.

Sound quality is oftne on my mind. I wonder if my microphone pops or if I peak it out by talking too loud. I've recorded a few sessions just to check, but its another matter to hear it through the coaching player.

It'd be nice to have a high end microphone, but for a reasonably priced headset this logitech G35 has served me pretty well thus far.

*virtual hug for datsmahname* im glad your back !

As promised, here's an update on the WSOP live streams. If you're interested to watch Final Table's from WSOP 2012, you can find them listed here.

Some of the LHE events had great commentary (not all had comentary, but those that did were great).

http://www.wsop.com/2012/live-video/live-video.asp

Hi datsmahname,

"villainizing" means that someone is playing (e.g. you or a ps.com-member) and another person (having voice, not seeing your hole cards) is trying to give you a hand range based on your actions on the board. We did it several times in the German coaching and it's quite funny (and also helps you in putting someone on a range).

Maybe this format could be interesting for your coachings, too!

Good night,
Sendrafreak

OK, i think I understand.

Basically, it sounds like we would have someone play a live session, and I would attempt to break down their entire game without hole cards.

Then we could go back in the 2nd half of the coaching and see how I did, where I made mistakes, and identify differences between what I expect and what really happened.

That's interesting, and yeah I think we can do something like that in the future. Great tip. Thanks for sharing.

that sounds very good! I'd definitely like that of villainizing.

a little thing: dats, i realized we played a couple of hands during your last advanced coaching (just to clarify, I wasn't at the coaching since i don't have the required status), and you said that I made a very bad fold, but no one seems to remember which one. do you remember it? [If you don't, it's OK. it just got me extremely curious haha]

Hey JL, glad u caught up on that. You'll have to thank whoever passed word along. Its not a common spot since the pot size was unusually large for the flop, but worth thinking about.

I 3-bet your BTN isoraise. We saw the flop 4 ways after the BB came along. (12 SB pot)

Flop was 442 or 443. I bet, the EP limper called. Cant remember now if the BB folded. (14-15 SB pot).

In that precise situation, the weakest hands in your range are random overcards, like JTo or K9o. At 14-15:1 odds closing the action with position you should certainly call with basically your entire isoraise range unless I'm 3-betting extremely tight.

You only need about 3.25 outs, which would be basically any overs and any weak back door draw but once we consider your position I think any 3 outs is enough.

Even if you had like... an underpair, at 15:1 you have great implied odds heading to the turn.

So during the coaching the point I made was just that its extremely hard to justify a fold there and that it was very likely to be a mistake.

Thx for reminding me. Cheers

Oh, I found that hand! I don't remember, but I think/hope that the raise preflop was a missclick (I think I'd never isoraise T6s haha). So it's true I had overcards but none of them was very robust, and I had no other draws but a BD gutshot that never comes around haha. Your contibet against 3 and the fact that both called makes me think that a SD is possible on the callers (although I would never think you have a gs), and my 6 is no longer a good out.

Anyway, I needed only 6% equity for a profitable call, and I had it probably. Without much thinking, I put these ranges in equilab

Board: 3♦4♣4♥
       Equity     Win     Tie
MP2    22.83%  20.85%   1.97% { TT-44, AJs-A2s, K2s+, Q4s+, J6s+, T6s+, 97s+, 87s, AQo-A2o, K6o+, Q8o+, J8o+, T8o+, 98o }
BU     12.13%  11.18%   0.96% { Ts6s }
SB     36.52%  34.59%   1.94% { 66+, A4s+, K9s+, Q9s+, J9s+, T9s, A8o+, KJo+, QJo }
BB     28.52%  26.98%   1.54% { random }

Here is the hand:

Poker Stars, $0.25/$0.50 Limit Hold'em Cash, 6 Players
Poker Tools Powered By Holdem Manager - The Ultimate Poker Software Suite.

Preflop: Hero is BTN with T 6
UTG calls, 2 folds, Hero raises, SB 3-bets, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero calls

Flop: (12 SB) 3 4 4 (4 players)
SB bets, BB calls, UTG calls, Hero folds

Turn: (7.5 BB) 2 (3 players)
SB bets, BB folds, UTG raises, SB 3-bets, UTG caps, SB calls

River: (15.5 BB) K (2 players)
SB bets, UTG calls and is all-in

Results:
16.1 BB pot (0.3 BB rake)
Final Board: 3 4 4 2 K
SB showed A 5 and won 15.8 BB (9.5 BB net)
UTG mucked 4 A and lost (-6.3 BB net)

Hey JL,

yes I guess this is an outlier. Why do you think it was a misclick and not just a raise which you know is bad but made anyway? This is an important question because lots of players don't like accepting full responsibility for decisions they feel are mistakes but were made anyways. Something to think about.

You probably want a good amount more than 6% equity in these spots because its tough to realize all of your equity. Overcards on the turn won't be worth a call so if you brick the turn you won't have the opprotunity to improve on the river and that chance of improving to win will be dashed.

One practical tip is to actually stove your hand when you hit one of your outs (or improves to a GSSD/OESD). (or just use equilab to analyze turn cards).

I don't know if it was a missclick, but I hope it was, that's why I wrote the "think/hope" part.

on the other hand, I have no problem being wrong (I'm used to it actually ♦)

Hey dats, I was just wondering about the next coaching. Could we probably do it on taking notes/labeling players? I am afraid I might be relying too much on HM and I should improve my label/notes system, and I saw you had multiple labels and a lot of notes for each player.

Hey JL,

yep we can certainly do another coaching about taking notes and creating reads. I do like to be extremely well prepared for big topics like this and in the future you might expect to see that topic released as a podcast.

However, tomorrow we can definitely chat about making reads, using colours to identify players, and I'll give you guys some pointers about creating notes. Its a popular and theoretically simple topic, perfect for the basic coaching.

Ill tty then.

Of course, I just needed to talk about a particular subject for the training I was interested in and... I lost internet connection for 3 days!!! That's all it takes for me, just get a little extra interest, and BANG, my connection went down. I hope we can still chat about that next week though

topics like this are vital. maybe not next week, but we'll revisit these topics because they're so important.

constant improvement demands that we have strong fundamentals.

Villain VPIP65, PFR17, 3Bet 22 in 66 hands. (He was very profitabel for me at the end of the session.)
$0.25/$0.50 - Holdem - 10 players
Hand converted by PokerTracker 4

MP+1: $4.51
MP+2: $21.15
CO: $2.92
BTN: $17.20
SB: $14.92
BB: $7.24
UTG: $8.65
Hero (UTG+1): $8.21
UTG+2: $10.18
MP: $9.40

SB posts SB $0.10, BB posts BB $0.25

Pre Flop: (pot: $0.35) Hero has 4♣ A♣

fold, Hero raises to $0.50, fold, fold, fold, MP+2 calls $0.50, CO calls $0.50, fold, fold, BB calls $0.25

This is not the standart raise for me, I know I schould fold, but sometimes I do it und it seems to be ok.

Flop: ($2.10, 4 players) 6♦ 6♣ 5♦
BB checks, Hero bets $0.25, MP+2 calls $0.25, CO calls $0.25, fold

Turn: ($2.85, 3 players) 6♠
Hero bets $0.50, MP+2 raises to $1.00, fold, Hero calls $0.50

River: ($4.85, 2 players) 4♥
Hero checks, MP+2 bets $0.50, Hero calls $0.50

Thanks for coaching! You presented so many information about all plays. I can see you really enjoy the game. As a beginner FL poker player, I ask you: Why do you think is much more profitable to play FL rather than normal cash games? Why don't you switch to cash games? Thanks.

I have a question about expected winrate in full ring tables and in 6-max tables. How many BB-s per 100 hand is considered good?