NL16 A4s 4bet pot

When you see that your villain is flatting 4bets oop with KJs you don't need hands like A4s to 4bet bluff. Clearly he is not folding enough pre flop to 4bets.

You can start to 4bet for value with something like KQ+ JJ+ when he calls this wide.

As played it is OK.

You can 4b 5-6% range here.
I am not sure your flop cbet is fine. Nothing from his call 4b range is folding.

Villains call 4bet range should be tighter and I don't expect many folds OTF so checking is ok too. I would say that betting or checking flop&turn are personal preferences and also depend on villain, neither is terribly wrong. Overall you played this hand fine. If you decide to bet turn also you should have some kind of reads about villains call 4bet range and his postflop tendencies.

I think check back otf is better, since nothing in his calling range is worse, but as played is ok.

Hmm, yeah, I like to have at least something going for my hand when I c-bet. A couple of backdoors don't really count. But I don't fault you. You have invested 4 bets in a bluff and you might as well put in a fifth (and last) attempt. Sizing flop is good. Sizing on the river seems normal. The downside of that particular sizing is that you'd be in a difficult spot if shoved upon. Sort of committed, but not quite, if you know what I mean. Difficult spots open up for mistakes.

Vs. tighter players, I think a turn shove is really viable. It's a spot where we aren't really ever shoving without a very strong hand (overpairs +) and we also don't have much showdown value. I think this is a great spot to jam OTT as played.

Originally posted by oI2ange
Vs. tighter players, I think a turn shove is really viable. It's a spot where we aren't really ever shoving without a very strong hand (overpairs +) and we also don't have much showdown value. I think this is a great spot to jam OTT as played.

We definitely have a lot of fold equity here. Still we are deep and one could argue that the risk-reward ratio is not that great. That is a very expensive bluff and might be hugely -EV in the long run. In similar situations, how many times out of 100 villain has to call to make it break even? Do you think villain could catch us more often than that?

The turn push is an expensive bluff. If you are about to push the turn, then you should make a much more bigger flop bet.

I calculated myself that shove OTT would have to work around 60% of the time for it to be break even. If we count in the rake and want to make some profit with this kind of bluff it would be closer to 70%? If we keep shoving turns regularly someone will catch us. Pushing turn doesn't sound like a good plan in the long run.

It wasn't necessary the hard work... It is obvious that this is an expensive and not profittable move.