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JJ-Overpair in 3Bet-Pot vs strong calls

 
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Last Post by Klausen16 9 years ago
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Klausen16
Klausen16
Joined: 12.04.2013
Posts: 309
09.09.2017, 05:59

Hi guys,

here is the next hand I would like to get ur opinion about - so thanks for ur time-investment :f_love:

Hero (CO): 143 BB
BTN: 103 BB (VPIP: 60.00, PFR: 60.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 6)
SB: 100 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 1)
BB: 102 BB (VPIP: 20.00, PFR: 17.50, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 40)
UTG: 100 BB (VPIP: 0.00, PFR: 0.00, 3Bet Preflop: 0.00, Hands: 5)
MP: 113 BB (VPIP: 31.51, PFR: 24.66, 3Bet Preflop: 4.55, Hands: 76)

So we play IP vs UTG which is complete unknown for me.

Pre Flop: (pot: 1.5 BB) Hero has J♦ J♥

UTG raises to 3 BB, fold, Hero raises to 9 BB, fold, fold, fold, UTG calls 6 BB

Preflop I decide to 3Bet here. I have a generel equity of 63% vs the unkown-reg-utg-range. So with the 3Bet I reduce the caller behind me and avoid getting crushed by sets, or just hits like Q or K for example. So probably it should be a flop with a good playablity with my Jacks. Anyway a call would be ok as well. Or do you think I actually have to call here?

Flop: (19.5 BB, 2 players) T♠ 8♠ T♥
UTG checks, Hero bets 12.5 BB, UTG calls 12.5 BB

OTF I bet here like 12,5/19,5 = 64%. Maybe I should go a little bit bigger like 77% to avoid cheap flush-plays. On the other hand I mean the board is paired and if I bet to high I would turn it into a bluff because nothing I beat would call me. So right now I would go for the same. What size would you go here?

Turn: (44.5 BB, 2 players) 3♦
UTG checks, Hero bets 23.5 BB, UTG calls 23.5 BB

At least here I should go and give UTG a range to make sure how my bet is here so (after flop play):

So assuming the range is sth. that he might have I probably should just check-behind. But on the otherside he could have called overcards as well so we would go like:

If I checkbehind -> he will bet most of the time river anyway I have a though decision on river and no idea of his range. And he gets a free card. If I bet here I see his last action which is the honest most of the time. On the river IP seeing the last bet or seeing him checking is most honest thing I will get I think. So I decide to bet here again: 23,5/44,5 = 0,52 = 52%.

How you would have play the turn? What range do you give a unkown player up here?

River: (91.5 BB, 2 players) Q♠
UTG bets 55 BB and is all-in, fold

On the river shove I folded here because of the Q + the possible Flush + the strong line of him. So easy fold.

Have a nice day :) !


♦♥♠:c Mein Blog ♦♥♠:c

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3 replies
SDK1987
Moderator
SDK1987
Joined: 12.11.2008
Posts: 43,840
09.09.2017, 06:46

I think betting half pot on every street is big enough or we are dealing with a calling station. I don’t think he would call pre-flop to often with 2 spades in the hand and a random T. Only hands like AJs+ and KQs maybe. Also, I expect he could have hands like 77-JJ that could call pre-flop and would call a Cbet as well.

On the turn, I expect he could call with the same range and the river is ugly and I don’t think he would change his hand in a bluff and I expect he’s only doing this with a flush or TT and 88 and is folding fine.

Cheers,
SDK1987


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la55i
la55i
Joined: 27.01.2013
Posts: 8,896
09.09.2017, 09:46

Pre I play mixed. So both 3bet and call can be ok.
OTF you could check behind or bet a lot smaller, not bigger. The board is quite dry, neither you or villain have many bluffs here -> use smaller bets.
As played I think the river fold is ok.

Btw, the range you have given villain looks more like UTG opening range and should be quite far away from his call 3bet range. Imo villains range should be about 88-QQ,AQ,AK,AJs and even that is too wide.


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Klausen16
Klausen16
Joined: 12.04.2013
Posts: 309
11.09.2017, 22:42

Thanks for your comments! :)

I note: Betting smaller probably is the better way for this. Actually with that hand and the flop my target pot-size for the showdown would be like 100 to 110 BB to have a good proportion between my hand-strength and the the pot-size. So @ the flop we got 19,5 BB already in the pot.

So if I want to go 3 times the same %-bet I probably can calc this like this:
Flop: 19,5 + 19,5 * X + 19,5 * X
Turn: Flop + Flop * X + Flop * X
River: Turn + Turn * X + Turn * X = Target Size, for example 105 BB
======================================================
105 BB = Turn + Turn * X + Turn * X
105 BB = (Flop + Flop * X + Flop * X) + (Flop + Flop * X + Flop * X) * X + (Flop + Flop * X + Flop * X) * X
105 BB = ((19,5 + 19,5 * X + 19,5 * X)+ (19,5 + 19,5 * X + 19,5 * X) * X + (19,5 + 19,5 * X + 19,5 * X) * X) + ((19,5 + 19,5 * X + 19,5 * X) + (19,5 + 19,5 * X + 19,5 * X) * X + (19,5 + 19,5 * X + 19,5 * X) * X) * X + ((19,5 + 19,5 * X + 19,5 * X) + (19,5 + 19,5 * X + 19,5 * X) * X + (19,5 + 19,5 * X + 19,5 * X) * X) * X

Online-Calc says:
0,376

Check:
Flop: 19,5 + 19,5 * 0,376 + 19,5 * 0,376 = 34,164
Turn: 34,164 + 34,164 * 0,376 + 34,164 * 0,376 = 59,855328
River: 59,855328 + 59,855328 * 0,376 + 59,855328 * 0,376 = 104,866534656

Well works :f_drink:!

So I think I can bet like 40 % here next time.
Can I even bet < 50 % ??

Originally posted by la55i
Btw, the range you have given villain looks more like UTG opening range and should be quite far away from his call 3bet range. Imo villains range should be about 88-QQ,AQ,AK,AJs and even that is too wide.

Yeah right - did this again:


♦♥♠:c Mein Blog ♦♥♠:c

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