Skip to forum
Notifications
Clear all

Flop Middle Pair. Passive line OOP.

8 Posts
6 Users
0 Reactions
1,599 Views

$0.1/$0.2 Fixed-Limit Hold'em (9 handed)

Preflop: Hero is BB with J:h, T:c.
4 folds, MP3 raises, 3 folds, Hero calls.

  • So we're up against an open raise from MP3. This player is an unknown to me. I put him on a 20% hand range and called expecting to have around 37% equity. Equilab gives us something close to this.

Flop: (4.5 SB) 2:d, J:s, K:c (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls.

  • I flop 2nd pair. Against the hand range I put him on he'll have worse hands that will often fold if I play aggressively and better hands that will often continue by calling down or raising. For this reason I felt like calling is a good option.

Turn: (3.25 BB) 9:c (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero calls.

Spoiler

We have a similar decision on the turn. I'm getting 4:1 to call with 2nd pair, but I've improved to a GSSD and have about 7 outs when behind. We need to discount my chances of improving if a T hits on the river because any Q has a straight and his hand range will have some Q's like KQ or QQ, and QJ. Also, 2 pair doesn't give me the best hand if he happens to have a set.

With only 7 outs we cannot call, but I have 2nd pair and may win at showdown against TT, 88, or even AQ/AT that have bet the turn aggressively (these hands will often check back on the river).

I decided to call at 4:1 because in addition to having about 15% equity when behind, I think we'll win at showdown unimproved at least 10% of the time against his turn betting range (when he checks back on the river). We also have some implied odds when we lead the river with a straight.

River: (5.25 BB) 7:d (2 players)
Hero checks, MP3 bets, Hero folds, MP3 gets uncalled bet back.

  • I don't expect players to barrel the river so often with hands worse than mine. I'm getting 6:1 odds to call so I need to win in 16.7% of cases. I think thats just too often to make this call.

Reply
Quote
7 replies

I would probably have your line too. Don't know if i would be able to escape a "curiosity call" on the river thought!!


Reply
Quote
Dawnfall26
Joined: 30.07.2008

Hi!

If you take this this line Im never ever folding river vs unknown getting 1:6 there since if you do...you are basically folding your entire calldown range assuming this hand is pretty much at the top of it(and that is never good).He may even have worse hands he is valuebetting like A9 or JT and unknwon players on these stakes will way waaaay waaaaaaaaaay to often just bet the river with 66 or AQ.This is no place to make profit by though fold! Hand like A2 can be folded here but certainly not as strong as JT.

Also just c/r is fine as well but I dont mind just calldown on these stakes,player are spewy way too often. Thing is that most hands which you want to valuebet or you want to induce from should check back on the turn(66-99,AT,AQ) and this part is quite big.Also I wouldnt expect a lot of rebluffs from his part since pockets and strong Ax dont rebluff very often so if he goes for turnraise we dont need to see SD.


Reply
Quote

hmm, i didn't really figure players to be that spewy... but if we're using that assumption we should show this down.


Reply
Quote

I like your line until river .
Don't get why we are folding against an unknown , it truly makes no sense to me.


Reply
Quote
firsttsunami
Joined: 23.01.2006

i agree. if check/calling this flop with middle pair medium kicker i'm willing to see the showdown in 100% of the time because it's too exploitable, he could bet worse hands and you should not give too much credit on these stakes. :)


Reply
Quote

I'm surprised to see so much agreement. I should have included that this was the first hand he'd played in 1 orbit... but i'm not sure it would change anything. you all seem very convinced that this fold was a mistake.

An unknown opponent is just an average opponent. In this case, an average opponent who has open raised and barreled 3 streets.

Personally I think this is not a clear call. It is exploitable though, no doubt there.


Reply
Quote
taavi1337
Joined: 29.05.2009

I'm calling as well vs unknown. Microstakes and stuff, you can't really put him on that tight range here on first hand.


Reply
Quote