Coaching: Fixed-Limit [Advanced] with datsmahname

@Alieaz

datsmahname, if you get the chance or find a good example, can you talk to the others about how sometimes we forgoe a small edge on the flop sometimes in order to exploit a (potentially) much larger one on the turn. A bit like the two overpair hands in ed millers book? you know what I mean? I found this concept very useful...

I think i kind of remember the examples from Small Stakes Holdem (one of Ed Millers books). Slowplaying is very rarely the best option, but it is worth talking about since we have the option to slowplay every time we have a big hand.

Basically, whenever we flop a strong hand we want to see bets going in on the flop. That doesn't mean we should definitely be the one putting them in. So if we flop top set on K72 and a player donk bets in front of us, calling in a single raised pot is a good option if theres 1 or two players left to act. If there are 3 or more then we should just fastplay our hand. Someone will call often enough that we'll get the same amount (and sometimes more) value by fast playing our strong hand. To slowplay we also want to expect our opponent to bet again on the turn.

@everyone. Very sorry for the disruption in the chat today. I can see it caused quite a few issues. I'll make sure to check this regularly in the future.

Thanks guys. Good questions today. I'm writing this because I didn't get to one of them.

West48 asked "why fold T8 with TP on the flop getting such good (8:1) odds."

At the very end of the coaching we discussed this hand in depth and it was pretty interesting then as well so I'll be posting a full breakdown of the hand tomorrow before the basic coaching.

When thinking about our 77 lead on the 663 flop, I made a reference to an article. After thinking about it more the reference is actually from a quiz on small pocket pairs. Its a gold quiz, but I've clipped out the explination. Consider it a small teaser for those who don't have gold access... and hopefully its alright ♦

The hand:

Gold Quiz Link

Limit: $0.5/$1

Opponents:
CO = tight-passive, rest unknown
Pre-flop: You are BB with 8Spade , 8Club (6 players)
1 fold, MP3 calls, CO raises, BU calls, 1 fold, You call

Flop: (8,5 SB) 3:H , 3:S , 7:C (4 players)
You?

For just a small bet, you welcome taking a look at the flop in a 4-handed pot with your 88. The flop isn't too bad as it shows up with a paired board and only low cards. Donk-bet or check to take a look at the action and potentially check-raise?

bet (2 Points)
check (0 Points)

Your answer --- (0 Points)

Your overpair will often be the best hand in this spot. Only higher pocket pairs or 77 could have you beat here. It's rather improbable that someone joined the hand with a 3. Draws are mostly impossibly, too, and the board is rainbow. You have to protect your hand as much as possible here.

Checking would be a big mistake, it's really the wrong spot for a check/raise. The pre-flop aggressive is tight-passive, so it's not even sure that he will bet unimproved overcards against three opponents.

A free card would be a disaster in this case. A donk-bet from first position increases your chances to get one or several opponents to fold his six outs and to reduce the amount of foes.

Whenever you can't be sure that there will be any betting at all and you want to avoid a free card at any cost, you should not go for a check/raise. If you have to protect, a check/raise only makes sense when you can assume a bet behind you with a certain degree of safety so you can confront the rest of the opposing field with two bets.

More about the topic of protection can be found in this article:

Protection

Here's the link to Yohan's great thread. If you guys are looking for tips on a different way to study topics I think that grinding out solutions (while messy) is a great way to learn.

Standard Lines: Advanced River-play

Today we spent a few minutes talking about moving up in stakes and one of the things you can expect. Namely, that your current strategy will tend to win you less money when you move up because you'll tend to face better opponents.

The net effect is that our winrate decreases. If we chart winnings and hands, as winrate decreases we should expect the slope of the line to become less positive. The same amount of variance produces more break even and losing stretches as our winrate decreases.

Here's a tool you can use to play around with winrates, expected outcomes and so on.

http://www.castrovalva.com/~la/win.htm

• Winrate is obvious enough. You can put in your BB/100 or play around.
• In LHE Std DEV is typically around 20BB/100 hands. If you're playing full ring it might be around 18BB/100, 6max around 21BB/100.
• Periods need the same units. If you're winrate and Std DEV are in BB/100, so do periods. Just devide your hands by 100.

After you put in the data and chart it, click "chart" a few times. What you see is a new line. Thats a possible outcome that could have happened to a player with that winrate over those hands with that variance. Try out extremes with lots and few hands, or a high/low Std DEV or winrate.

i love your coaching man my only wish is longer duration and more days ♦ at 25/50c sh is just perfect (silver coaching)

udevils thing doesn't work

hi, i didnt see u in action but i have any question..I apologize for my english..which 3 things are the important for beating micros (e.g. 15/30c +..) i play actually 25/50c and its for my beat this limit..so i want to know ure opinion thanks

Hey Ava, thx for the props. Feedback is a massive help.

Hi irik83, sorry for the delay in response. If I could list the three most important things for beating the micros at fixed limit I'd say they are tight aggressive play, bankroll management, and continual improvement.

TAG or tight aggressive play is vital. Tight play means playing only those hands that will show a profit in the long term and folding weak hands that do not have that positive expectation. Aggressive play is where you invest money by betting and raising when our hand figures to win more than its share of the money. Understanding both these things comes with time. The articles here on the site, videos, and live coaching can provide lots of examples.

Bankroll management (BRM) is essentially smart business practice. In the short term poker is mostly a game of luck and we do not expect to be more lucky than anyone else. We need to make sure that our bankroll is large enough to handle the swings associated with poker. Its generally recommended to have at least 300 BB(600 big blinds) for full ring and 500BB for 6-max. This gives us enough firepower to make our investments at the table and minimize the risk of going broke.

TAG play and BRM are necessary because without them you'll lose money and go broke. However, unless we're improving our game then our capacity to win money will gradually disappear. As dedicated players we can learn enough to be profitable at the microstakes in a fairly short amount of time, but if we ever stop learning it will come back to bite us later. Focused learning on a weekly basis keeps us sharp and prepares us for higher limits.

please let me know if anything is unclear. I'm more than happy to re-word things so its easy to understand.

cheers.

Hey, looks like our match is indeed set to begin shortly. Here's the news post.

http://www.pokerstrategy.com/news/content/Fixed-Limit:-ByronJacobs-vs.-datsmahname-Coaching-%5BSilver+%5D-New-Video-%5BGold+%5D_60305/

HAHA this is gonna be fun, I know.

Damn, i don't have a tracked account, have to buy the silver status soon If there's a rematch i'll probably be there railing

What's the results??

Hey Virtua, I handily defeated byron to the tune of $1.79 (balla!)

The response was good and both byron & I liked this format. We'll need to wait & see how things turn out in the future but I think its a possibility

hiya, just wanted to point out that the link on the coaching info (when you click on the calendar) still points to the old terrorblade thread

Hello!

I tried to contact you on pm, because i was the one who joined coaching not knowing what is all about and played at the same table w/ you.

Once again i want to apologize and I hope no harm is done.
It's not my limit that i usually play so it wasn't like i wanted to cheat or something.

Hey FlorinCatana, thanks for the post.

I definitely understand that people could make this mistake. Its also not very likely that people with malicious intentions would play regularly on Stars, sign on with their actual alias and join the coaching.

Its very unfortunate when this kind of thing happens because hole-cards up adds a lot of value to the coaching but this is the risk.

We've actually played a lot in the past at .5/1 and I'm willing to forget about it. Please be careful in the future though because its a big risk.

Originally posted by squat666
hiya, just wanted to point out that the link on the coaching info (when you click on the calendar) still points to the old terrorblade thread

ok, thanks squat. I'll request an update for that page.

Thanks for the understanding.
It is really nice of you and believe me that i learned my lesson (the tough way) cause u made sweat a bit there when i heard i might be loosing my precious ps.com account ♠_cry:

Good luck at the tables and i hope we'll meet again this time in a real game (say 10/20 in a couple of years)

I totally understand. Its actually the first time this has come up so clearly. I myself am relatively new as a Coach, and I don't yet know how PokerStrategy handles such things.

More importantly, welcome to the coaching! Its actually really great to see someone in the coaching whos a micros reg I'm familiar with.

thx for clearing things up.

dats

excellent coaching once again

Good to hear FlorinCatana that it wasn't on purpose for harmful reasons.
I'm sorry for having to "turn you in" but yeah it's against the rules and i wanted to like "protect" the value of the coaching and prevent cheating of any kind. So it all worked out for the good

gl gl , you should come join us btw. be active in the chat, its fun when theres more than me spamming the chat box ♦

Nothing to be sorry, Avataren, i am the one who did something wrong, you just made it right.

Just silly of me (not to say stupid ♦) that i haven't used my head to see that it wasn't right/logical having one person just basically donating money for educational purposes.

I guess i am too busy grinding my way to Supernova at 1/2 to use my head for something else.

gl guys