Originally posted by N3bojsa
Originally posted by FrozenElf
Half of what you are writing is difficult to make sense of what your trying to say, but im guessing your asking me how many times am i up against AA preflop vs KK all in preflop out of 89 times all in preflop with KK i have ran into AA 27 times over 300,000 hands, i have lost most of them, the remaining 62 i have won half and lost halfnah he is not trying to put you down mate, he is trying to tell you different stuff (and be constructive ;))... look:
You open in BTN and you face a 3bet. Now, you always have a range of hands. So you are calling 3bets with KK and say "oh look, I have better results calling 3b with KK than when I 4bet them!" which is fair enough, you have that...
But his point is what happens, when you 4bet vs villains 3bet? What happens to your range? You dont have KK there, so you are either 4betting like 1% (so in that case dont be surprised to always see AA), or you are 4betting alot of hands (I saw you 4bet bluffing KJo etc), but your 4bet range is super weak! Yes you might have AA here and there but your range is full of that KJo KTo type of hands. Now - that means (once villains see that) that they can 3bet you pretty wide and once you 4bet, they can just shove vs you with alot of bluffs, because your 4bet range doesnt even have KK... So you will end up folding alot to 5bets, got it?
Thats what he was trying to say imo
Originally posted by Xixi74
I just want to help you and to give you some advice, you are asking for no ?
And I'm sorry for my English, my grammar is horrible... ahahYou said "I don't 4bet because when he 5bet I'm against AA and I lose 200bb"
- Yes, but how many times, after your 3bet, the opponent 5bet shove ? Look that on our tracker, and you'll find out that it's a little %age. And then, in all 5bet shove, look the %age of AA hands. This is to show you: you cannot just flat because sometimes your opponent will 5bet you. Think about a spot, you have 67 of heart, you have a flsh draw and you barrel on flop, on turn, and you hit your flush on the river: do you think "ok I don't want to bet, because if I bet, he has a better flush and I will lose" ? Of course not, because it not often happens."I don't 4bet to keep him bluffing with bad hands, and I do not want him to fold."
- Sometimes, opponent will just give up
- Sometimes, he'll hit a hand and beat you"when he hits I'll take money"
-yes, but you could take more with a bigger pot built on the preflop.And about their folding to 4bet, please again see the stat from your tracker. I think you could find stg like ''4bet success", and you'll find exactly, how much your opponents fold, overall.
And if I can give you some advice, is because I know the game, and I work quite a lot. I'm not a new one !
I hope it's clear this time. You have the good argument, but you just miss some points in your analysis.
I had to go to sleep last night guys, i agree with you both i should 4bet KK, I always normally do, let me try and explain my feeling's in a different way so you can understand why i am starting to experiment with KK by calling 3bets,
First of all, so far, i have been very unlucky with KK in an all in EV, witch is a serious tilt trigger for me, i go on and lose 2-3 stacks making bad plays in other area's when this happens, the same holds true for AK and QQ, so i want to avoid these all in confrontations with these hands because i cannot handle the emotion bad variance cause's me.
I agree with you both, i know its right to 4bet KK preflop, but my plan is not to call on the flop, i am planning to reraise most flops anyway, witch theoretically is going to create a 4bet pot on the flop anyway, when i am called.
Yes, you are also right, i will have to adjust my 4bet bluff range, but seriously how many players do you think will even notice this at NL25?
