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Primrose vs Harrier - Troll Challenges

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Harrier88
Joined: 01.05.2012

They troll the forum, they troll the tables, and now they troll each other: Welcome to the Troll Challenges, where two of your favorite Pokerstrategy trolls square off to see who will dominate!

Primrose and Harrier are both no strangers to the virtual felt, but sometimes, you just need that extra motivational kick, and we all love a good competition on the side.

It's squirrel vs puppy, man vs woman, Germany vs Hungary, but most importantly troll vs troll in a series of fun challenges, some poker-related and some otherwise.

There will be some scheduled, recurring challenges, with some extra stuff thrown in on a regular basis. We are also open to suggestions, so if there is anything you would like the trolls to do, feel free to let us know. This may also include stuff to do in person, as Prim and I are good friends in real life and currently see each other on a monthly basis.

There may also be some cooperative challenges, where the trolls work together towards a common goal, or individual challenges, where one of the trolls is asked to step up and show what they got. Also look out for challenges that may require your own judgment to determine who has won. :f_wink:

But now, without further ado – let the Troll Challenges begin!


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1,483 replies
Harrier88
Joined: 01.05.2012

Before we begin, let us introduce the two trolls that will compete in this thread:

Primrose the puppy originally comes from Hungary, but is now roaming the valleys of South-West Germany, where she enjoys gardening, tennis and taking her bicycle out for a ride.

Those annoying punctures on her bike tours and the pesky sunflowers that like to spring up when Prim is trying to plant something else in her garden won't ruin her fun – she's still a cute and playful puppy who can instantly brighten your day with her lovely smile and positive attitude.

Prim is very sporty and athletic, and she has made a name for herself on the tennis court with her hyper-aggressive playing style. She is never afraid to take on even opponents who are technically playing on a much higher level than her, and still leaves the court as a winner more often than not, after returning balls that many other players would have considered unreachable.

She is every bit as aggressive at the poker tables too, where her tendency to bet “da pot” has already made some Pokerstrategy coaches gulp. It's a good thing she is playing Pot Limit Omaha, where there is at least some limit to her aggression. Don't let that make you think that she is a maniac, though. Prim knows what she is doing, and she has the results to back it up.

She's smart, she's strong, and she knows exactly what she wants. Primrose will be a more than worthy adversary for Harrier in these Troll Challenges.

Check out her blog here.


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Harrier88
Joined: 01.05.2012

From the leafy forests of Central Germany, Harrier the squirrel can be described as a unique individual – at least that's the polite way of putting it.

Always willing to swim upstream and explore uncharted territory, Harrier is a free-roaming squirrel who will try everything once – and some things maybe even twice. With this kind of attitude, he has already had quite a journey in the area of sports, where, among other things, he has actively participated in soccer, rugby, fencing, equestrians, archery, boxing, Krav Maga, unterwater rugby, softball, shooting, rowing and Israeli folk dancing. His current active sports are American football and ballet, an interesting combo, and who knows what's next...

In poker, he has had a similarly exciting journey, where he has long ditched Hold'em and is now grinding mixed games, his main game being Pot Limit Badugi, and other games including... pretty much anything else that isn't Hold'em.

Not even African mancala games and Japanese flower cards are safe from this squirrel, and if you think you can hide at an Open-Faced Chinese Poker table on some crypto website, chances are, he will find you there too.

Above all, however, Harrier likes to have fun, and is happy to mix some delicious drinks for himself and his friends. This includes time-tested favorites like the Old-Fashioned and the Negroni, contemporary classics like the Tequila Sunrise and the Moscow Mule, or even some of his very own creations like the Final Table and Nsavov's Underpants.

As for his cooking style... another troll legend famously once came up with the word “banhauser” to describe it, because it truly needs its own word, and let's just leave it at that. But much like with so much else about this crazy squirrel, you may just eventually come to appreciate it.

With his far-reaching pool of skills and interests, Primrose will definitely be in for a ride against this clever little squirrel, in any case.

Check out his blog (and mixed drinks recipes) here.

So, these are the trolls. Who will you be rooting for?


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Primrose6789
Joined: 01.07.2016

Yaaaay, excited!

Just let me briefly explain, why I am a puppy and Harrier is a squirrel. That is Pokerstrategy-history. A couple of years ago, I was grinding Holdem, too. I was an STT- and MTT-player in Holdem and one night, I dreamt of two black dogs who played poker. The very day after this crazy dream, I won an MTT on Partypoker (don´t remember anymore which one it was). Since then, everybody has posted pictures of puppies in my blog whenever I run badly. :f_biggrin::f_ugly: And so, I became "the puppy".

Harrier used (and I think he still does) to post pictures of squirrels, whenever he was annoyed of a certain discussion topic here. Whenever he posted a squirrel eating nuts, we knew: Harrier is annoyed :rage: and doesn´t wish further discussion about this particular topic :sifflote: So, he became the squirrel. :f_biggrin:

Anyway, as Harrier mentioned, we are also friends in real life, we have known each other for several years and decided, we need some extra kick _cool: Especially I need sometimes extra motivation kicks when it comes to hit the tables.

There will be poker-related challenges, but also non-poker related ones. Looking forward to it!


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bigdog63
Joined: 24.10.2011

Can't wait to be trolled and watch you troll. I wonder who will be trolling back.
Let the trolling begin!

https://forums.pokerstrategy.com/forum/thread.php?postid=3269526#post3269526


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VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

I believe it was Prim who coined "banhauser"
I won't say who posted it to Urban Dictionary :sifflote:
But it is such a necessary word in any language.

May I suggest a banhauser event in the Troll Olympics?
Each would find a suitably banhauser recipe on line, prepare it and presumably eat it.
I'm not sure where the competitive part comes in, though.

Perhaps...
https://www.foodnetwork.com/recipes/corned-beef-and-cabbage-pizza-recipe-1972964


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Primrose6789
Joined: 01.07.2016

Vorpal, it is very well known that you and Harrier are huge Banhausers* :f_ugly: But a Banhauser cooking challenge could be big fun! I think it´s a great idea!

Can Prim cook Banhauser? :f_o::mdr:

*For the new readers: The word "Banhauser" refers to people with very "interesting" tastes of food. The word was created from the German word "Banause". Vorpal and Harrier like very "interesting" food-combinations. :f_ugly:


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VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

Originally posted by Primrose6789
Vorpal, it is very well known that you and Harrier are huge Banhausers* :f_ugly: But a Banhauser cooking challenge could be big fun! I think it´s a great idea!

Can Prim cook Banhauser? :f_o::mdr:

I'm sure you could cook anything -- the trick would be to find something Harrier would deem Banhauser

Originally posted by Primrose6789
*For the new readers: The word "Banhauser" refers to people with very "interesting" tastes of food. The word was created from the German word "Banause". Vorpal and Harrier like very "interesting" food-combinations. :f_ugly:
I didn't know that. etymology is rather a hobby of mine.
Google translate choked on "Banause" but my trusty backup came through.

Is there an online German Dictionary that Germans use?
For English words, I go to http://www.onelook.com/ and when I put in the word, I get an entire selection of dictionaries to choose from.

For example:
https://www.onelook.com/?w=defenestrate
(I love it that a language needs such a word)


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VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

Good grief!
There is even a poem about it...
https://cbkwgl.wordpress.com/2012/01/13/defenestration-rp-lister/


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Ramble
Joined: 17.11.2008

Hahaha... I love it and am looking forward to the trolls and lols.

Who's the artist that came up with the great pics?


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Primrose6789
Joined: 01.07.2016

Originally posted by Ramble
Hahaha... I love it and am looking forward to the trolls and lols.

Who's the artist that came up with the great pics?

It´s Harrier! He draws those lovely comics. _love:


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Harrier88
Joined: 01.05.2012

Originally posted by VorpalF2F
May I suggest a banhauser event in the Troll Olympics?
Each would find a suitably banhauser recipe on line, prepare it and presumably eat it.
I'm not sure where the competitive part comes in, though.

Yes, when Prim and I discussed any possible challenges, a "cooking challenge" was already one of our ideas - with several possible mottos, including a "banhauser" one. :f_biggrin:

As for how to rate it, we would either have the people vote on who they believe should win, or just have the other person rate if they passed or not. Not all challenges need to have a winner, sometimes it's just "can Prim/Harrier/both of them do X?".

Originally posted by VorpalF2F
Is there an online German Dictionary that Germans use?

The Duden would be one of the most common ones, assuming you are referring to German-only dictionaries. It has an online version too.

As for the origins of the term "banhauser", it goes back to a private Skype group we once had. Prim used the German word "Banause" referring to me having ordered some odd kind of takeout food (like this one, which was one item I had around that time). It is a derisive German term to describe someone who has poor taste, a possible translation could be "philistine", maybe. Troll of the Year 2018 MyFloXyBabY, who is not a German speaker, was also in the group when that happened, and later once tried to use that word from memory when I said that Hold'em was weird in one of Prim's blogs. :f_biggrin: He accidentally turned it into "banhauser", which was the exact birth point of that term.

Prim and I now like to use it to describe my very unique taste in food. :f_biggrin:

For more forum history, the origin posts of our puppy and squirrel mascots can be found here and here. Prim already described the story about them quite nicely. :f_grin:


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Harrier88
Joined: 01.05.2012

Originally posted by Ramble
Who's the artist that came up with the great pics?

Indeed, it is me. :f_grin: Glad you like them.

Prim and I had the idea for this challenge blog about a month ago when TitanPoker ceased its operations in Germany. Before that, we used to play a certain freeroll for German players together over there that ran every Saturday evening. It was a nice weekly ritual for us, so we decided to come up with something better to fill the void.

One reason for us waiting until now to officially start the thread was that I wanted to finish a bunch of cartoons to go with it (and I still got a few additional ones lined up for different situations), including a nice title logo. We also had to wait until Prim was done with her tennis competition season, though, as well as her vacation, because she didn't have any time for poker before that.


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Harrier88
Joined: 01.05.2012

But with everything else out of the way now, let's get down to business, the Troll Challenges are officially underway! _biggrin:

As explained in the opening post, there will be some scheduled challenges that will take place every week, assuming we both have time.

One of those is the Sunday HORSE race, in which we will play the $1.10 HORSE, an MTT currently running daily at 19:03 CET on Pokerstars. It is a simple "last longer" challenge and we will play it every Sunday evening, making it the closest thing to a direct successor to our old freerolls on TitanPoker. Note that this tournament allows up to three re-entries, and they all count for the challenge - it doesn't matter how often Prim or I become "unHORSEd" in this game, the winner is whoever finishes deeper with their final bullet.

A slightly more complex challenge is the Five Card Draw Shoot-out, taking place every Friday afternoon. In this one, we will play the $4.40 PL 5-Card Draw Turbo PKO, another daily MTT on Stars, running at 15:43 CET. The rules are as follows:

Spoiler

1. If one troll directly busts out the other, he/she automatically wins the challenge, no matter what else happens in the game.
2. If this doesn't happen, the winner is whoever collects the most bounties with their first bullet, regardless of who finishes deeper or who ends up making the most profit.
3. If we don't bust each other out and neither of us collects more bounties than the other, whoever lasts longer wins the challenge.

Note that while this tournament also allows re-entries, we may not use them for the challenge - it's tough out there in the Old West, and we have to make our first bullet count! Either of us can feel free to re-enter after busting out, of course, but it won't count for the challenge anymore. Re-entering and busting out the other troll also won't count as an instant win anymore, once we bust out the first time, it's Game Over as far as the challenge is concerned.

There should be at least one more poker challenge on weekdays, which we decided to simply call Player's Choice. Prim and I will take turns to pick out a certain tournament of our choice for both of us to play on a certain day, and come up with rules as we see fit, though it will probably be just "last longer" in most cases.

Another idea was Play My Game, which we will probably do when there is a big tournament series on Stars like the MicroMillions or WCOOP. In this one, each troll is challenged to play a game in which the other one usually specializes. We already did something like that informally during the last MicroMillions this year, where Prim entered (and cashed! :f_thumbsup:) an 8-Game event, while I folded my way through a PLO event. We both gave each other a little crash course before it, and we will continue to do it here, of course.

I will also probably set up a dedicated Home Games Club on Pokerstars at one point, where Prim and I can play some heads-up matches against each other. And as another recurring challenge, we will also simply compare our poker profits each month and see who made the most (or lost the least, in case in goes particularly poorly for both of us) with whatever games they were playing.

That takes care of poker, but our Troll Challenges will go beyond that. :f_grin: We already mentioned cooking challenges, and we also plan to do non-poker gaming duels online. Apart from that - anything goes! It can be a cooperative challenge for both of us, one for Prim only, Harrier only, or a classic versus challenge. I know, for example, that Prim really hates karaoke and that I'm incompetent at it, but... will either of that stop us? :f_wink:

Then there are also the Live Challenges for our in-person meetups, of course, and I can already announce that this week's Five Card Draw Shoot-out on Friday will be cancelled because Prim is going to visit me that day. :f_love: I already had something nice planned, but discovered that we won't be able to make it, so we will unfortunately have to resort to something less spectacular to do at home, but don't worry, we already have some ideas. :f_grin:


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Harrier88
Joined: 01.05.2012

Time for the first official Troll Challenge, and it was a Live Challenge already, as Prim and I spent another lovely day at my place. :f_love:

We know that COVID tests in our area will soon cost money, and neither of us plans to get vaccinated, so our options for public activities will be severely limited by next month. For that reason, and because Prim is still recovering from some tennis injuries, my initial idea was miniature golf (sometimes known as crazy golf, though any golf would be crazy golf with the two of us), but I was not able to find an open course in the vicinity, the ones I remember from my youth don't seem to exist anymore.

We also wanted to combine it with a nice Chinese buffet, which we would have had at a certain restaurant in the same area, but I had an idea: Let's just get that Chinese food anyway, and while we're at it, do a Troll Challenge with the same theme at home:

Live Challenge No. 01 - Chinese Games Gauntlet

Too bad we couldn't include Go, which is one of the quintessential Chinese board games and possibly the oldest board game still being played in the world, but while I'm sure that I have some old cheapo Go set at home somewhere, I couldn't find it. We still had plenty to work with and decided to play a "best of five" series of several classic Chinese card and board games.

Round One: Two Player Mahjong (Hong Kong rules)

Mahjong (not to be confused with the widespread solitaire version) is a four player game, but is technically possible to be played with less players if you don't mind playing a non-standard game. My online mahjong network even offers some heads-up games, though they don't have any traffic, and for a good reason - with just two players racing to complete their hand, the game depends almost entirely on the deal with little room to get a strategic edge. It's pretty pointless to play for money since both players could expect to lose to rake, but it can still make for a nice way to pass some time.

It's what we did, using standard Hong Kong rules. Prim has recently learned the much, much more complicated Japanese version by playing it with me online, so this one should be a breeze for her.

My original plan was to play four hands, but we realized that the game setup takes some time, so we stopped after two. The first one was won by me with a cheap hand, the second one was won by Prim, though she turned out to have a value-less hand which technically shouldn't even count, so... this round goes to Harrier! 1-0.

Round Two: Xiangqi (Chinese Chess)

Neither of us trolls are very big chess players, though there will almost certainly be a chess challenge somewhere down the line, since it should be pretty easy to do online. Not having played Xiangqi in a long time, I took a quick look last night to make sure I remember all the rules, but made sure not to look too deep into strategy to make sure it won't be too unfair towards Prim, who went in completely blind.

It's a lot like Western chess and has the same goal, to capture the opponent's king. Special things include a palace which the king and two guard pieces can't leave, a river in the middle which can't be crossed by certain pieces and which changes the behavior of any pawn that crosses it, and two cannon pieces which move like rooks but can only capture if there is exactly one piece between them and their target, friend or foe.

Understandably, Prim was struggling a bit with the symbols, and I could tell that she wasn't having a great time with this rather intimidating game. It didn't last long until Harrier won by what I'm pretty sure is a checkmate, making it 2-0... despite some protests by Prim over whether this game should count. Don't worry, Prim, we'll play Pot Limit Omaha eventually. :f_wink:

Round Three: Chinese Poker

Followers of my blog may be familiar with the open face version. We played the standard version first: You get 13 cards in your hand, and have to arrange them into two standard five card poker hands at the bottom and in the middle, as well as an additional three card hand on top, for which straights and flushes don't count. Your bottom five card hand must beat your middle five card hand, and your middle five card hand must beat your top three card hand. Standard poker hand rankings apply. Players compare bottom vs bottom, middle vs middle and top vs top. There is a three point bonus for "scooping" by winning all three hands.

We played five hands, and Prim had a great start with a scoop hand shown below. We traded one point wins back and forth for the other four hands, but Harrier couldn't recover from the scoop. Prim wins, score is 2-1.

Round Four: Open Face Chinese Poker (Pineapple version)

Same as the above game, except that you get an initial deal of five cards, which you arrange open faced, followed by deals of three cards each, of which you use two and discard one. Players gradually build their hand face up until they are done. Making a disqualifying hand is now a real possibility, so the game requires some risk-management.

It is said that this game originated from Finland, but whatever - it's based on Chinese poker.

We played three hands, of which I won the first relatively narrowly, won the second by a big margin, and then Prim won the third hand by an even bigger margin, which however wasn't big enough to catch up with the points deficit from both previous hands combined. This makes the series 3-1, giving Harrier the win! :f_thumbsup: Due to Prim's protests about Xiangqi, I considered sticking around for "2-7 Open Face Chinese Poker", which would have been the tie-breaking fifth game, but both of us realized that it was getting late, and we didn't want to spend all day playing cards.

So this wraps up our first ever Troll Challenge with a win for Harrier... HOWEVER:

I didn't realize it until we were about to leave, but thinking about Prim's "value-less" mahjong hand again...

Her hand had indeed no points thanks to the unfitting flower tile next to her hand (not the first time she's getting trolled by a flower, you know...), BUT: she drew the winning tile herself, and winning by self-draw is automatically considered one point under Hong Kong rules!

Therefore, her hand should have counted by exactly as many points as my previous hand, the mahjong round should have been a tie, and Prim should have had a chance to catch up with one more game...

We already closed the Troll Challenge by that point, though, and Prim had to catch her train, so there was no more time anyway, even if we wanted. She officially accepted my win, but still, I'm not sure if we can let that controversial result stand.

For the time being, though...


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Ramble
Joined: 17.11.2008

Great theme for the first troll. I never heard of Xiangqi before, it sounds intriguing. The pictures are priceless!

Congrats Harrier... but I'm sure Prim is not going to let that lead stand for long.


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Primrose6789
Joined: 01.07.2016

Originally posted by Ramble
Great theme for the first troll. I never heard of Xiangqi before, it sounds intriguing. The pictures are priceless!

Congrats Harrier... but I'm sure Prim is not going to let that lead stand for long.

Of course not!

And I gotta mention that right before our challenge Harrier served me a delicious mixed drink called "Final Table" or, excuse me, "Diarrhoe" (which is also an insider joke). The reason why this drink was created was a pretty disgusting story. About ten oder eleven years ago, while I was playing MTT on Full Tilt (used to be a Holdem SNG- and MTT-player back then), I suffered from a pretty nasty stomach flu. I felt better, so I thought, let´s play some poker! While getting to the FT I noticed that I had to fart. As I still had stomach flu, it was not only a fart ..... (excuse me). :facepalm::rage: So, I had to play the FT with "dirty pants", until the next break. :facepalm::facepalm: We´re still joking about that little accident and Harrier decided to create a mixed drink, "honoring" my little "accident". The mixed drink indeed looks like ...:sifflote: and is delicious!

Played this Chinese chess for the first time, and even drunk! :f_o: So you can guess, figuring out which of those stones is what was already a big challenge. :sifflote: Yes, let´s blame it on the alcohol! :sifflote:


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Primrose6789
Joined: 01.07.2016

Coming soon ............. a poker-related challenge! _cool:_evil:

Tomorrow.... _biggrin:_cool:


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VorpalF2F
Joined: 02.09.2010

The only time I ever had the gut-rumble of doom while playing, I had to s̶h̶i̶t̶ sit out while I made a mad dash to the can.

Spoiler

I made it.


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Harrier88
Joined: 01.05.2012

Originally posted by Primrose6789
And I gotta mention that right before our challenge Harrier served me a delicious mixed drink called "Final Table" or, excuse me, "Diarrhoe" (which is also an insider joke). The reason why this drink was created was a pretty disgusting story. About ten oder eleven years ago, while I was playing MTT on Full Tilt (used to be a Holdem SNG- and MTT-player back then), I suffered from a pretty nasty stomach flu. I felt better, so I thought, let´s play some poker! While getting to the FT I noticed that I had to fart. As I still had stomach flu, it was not only a fart ..... (excuse me). :facepalm::rage: So, I had to play the FT with "dirty pants", until the next break. :facepalm::facepalm: We´re still joking about that little accident and Harrier decided to create a mixed drink, "honoring" my little "accident". The mixed drink indeed looks like ...:sifflote: and is delicious!

I still love to troll Prim with poopy-related GIFs whenever I'm railing her and she gets close to reaching FT. :f_biggrin: :f_tongue: :coolface:

And I plan to keep up the tradition of serving Prim my Final Table cocktail every time she manages to make an FT in one of her tournaments before visiting me - so let's hope it becomes a mainstay at my place. :f_wink: Recipe can be found here.

Originally posted by Primrose6789
Played this Chinese chess for the first time, and even drunk! :f_o: So you can guess, figuring out which of those stones is what was already a big challenge. :sifflote: Yes, let´s blame it on the alcohol! :sifflote:
Prim's repertoire of excuses was impressive... :mdr: Apart from the alcohol, she blamed her loss on being far-sighted and not having ordered the right contact lenses yet, me not having served her a coffee until minutes before the game, which wasn't soon enough, and in the case of mahjong, on that flower tile appearing out of nowhere even though she wasn't "supposed" to draw it, and on the rules which assigned her hand so little points even though it should have gotten many more because it was just so pretty. :f_biggrin:

But yes, she will definitely have her chances to get back at me during these Troll Challenges, and we already have plenty of ideas for the next live ones at my house. :f_grin: The next one should take place in the first or second week of November, I think.


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